An incredible amount of challenge exists for photographers and business owners when it comes to managing their mental health. In this episode I am continuing the series on photographers and mental health, speaking with fellow creatives regarding the correlation between our mental health and our businesses. Today’s guest is Marshall Scott, a wedding photographer and the co-owner of Shoot + Thrive. Marshall shares his incredible experience of going from a state of deep depression and transforming through meditation, faith, and determination.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes! https://play.libsyn.com/embed/episode/id/27013248/height/192/theme/modern/size/large/thumbnail/yes/custom-color/ffffff/time-start/00:00:00/playlist-height/200/direction/forward/download/yes
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REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES:
Openly sharing your testimony around mental health (4:19)
Understanding the impact of negative childhood memories (6:46)
Searching for identity and purpose (11:57)
Reaching the lowest point (17:10)
Beginning to break the pattern (24:54)
Having someone along for the journey (31:56)
Marshall’s path through recovery (37:06)
Dialectic Behavior Therapy (DBT) (42:08)
Practicing meditation for improved mental health (47:05)
Daily non-negotiables for mental health (1:01:57)
Managing the next steps (1:07:21)
Shoot And Thrive (1:09:12)
CONNECT WITH MARSHALL SCOTT
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: WWW.DANIELMOYERPHOTOGRAPHY.COM
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
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Dan Moyer
Hello friends, I’m Dean Moyer and welcome to the focus photographers podcast where photographers gather. This podcast series is about photographers and mental health and it tackles some real stuff. We are all going through something or we will go through something at some point. It is all different for each of us. But listening to these episodes may bring up some thoughts and feelings inside of you. These podcasts are the story of people dealing with some serious stuff in their lives. And this episode that you’re listening to right now does have some discussion about verbal abuse and attempted suicide. As always, I will approach these conversations with light hearted curiosity, spontaneity and levity. My greatest hope is that these conversations will give you some hope, lift you up and encourage you. But I really want to remind you that mold grows in the dark, and flowers bloom in the sun. And there’s nothing wrong with bringing out some of your stuff and watering your flowers. These podcasts though, are not a substitute for therapy. There is no substitute for talking to someone whose only job it is to listen to you with an open heart and an open mind and help get you through it in a professional organized way. Do you know how I knew I needed help is when I just couldn’t shake the negative thoughts that I had, I would feel this cloud and then without warning, I’d be stuck in this quagmire of only negative thoughts and hopelessness and loneliness that I couldn’t shake. therapy has done wonders for me over the last two years. And it might do some good too. And if you feel like you need to talk to somebody, just call or text 988 If you’re in the United States, okay, let’s get to the show. My guest today is a wedding photographer, and a co owner of a blogging and SEO company for photographers called shoot and thrive. Marshall has an incredible story of being depressed and suicidal to thriving and crushing it talking with him was profound and thoughtful and vulnerable. And I’m so thankful for him sharing his transformation through meditation, faith and determination, and all of the inspiring things that he has to say. So without further ado, let’s get to the show, please welcome my friend Marshall banasthali.
Dan Moyer
Marshall, Scott, my man Marshall been asker which I am so thankful that you are here. You know, as before we like really get into this, you are somebody two things that like one, we’ve sort of like been on the periphery of each other’s sphere just being connected one to think through geographic location, you know, I was originally from the Lehigh Valley, but also just in the photography circles in this area. But also I feel a very strong kinship to you because you are somebody who also is like a blind optimist. And like always sort of like in the thick of it at the wedding days and party and like all that kind of stuff. And I very much feel a kinship to your approach on wedding days of sort of being like along for that journey and being sort of like your ability to raise or lower the energy level of every situation. So I’m finally glad that we get to like sit down, really have a conversation and talk not just through messenger. So I’m glad you’re here.
Marshall Scott
Oh, I’m glad I’m here too. I totally agree with everything you just said. feels very good to be here and share that kinship as well. Finally face to face too. Yeah.
Dan Moyer
Have we ever actually met in person? Like do we made it like a fearless dinner or something? Maybe a long time ago? Have you gotten any of those? That’s weird. That’s so it’s so weird. How like, you can feel such a kinship to somebody or like just feel like oh, yeah, like, he’s a good friend of mine. Or you know, but really, you know, we’re just acquaintances through through the earbuds. It’s so
Marshall Scott
strange how that happens on Yeah, it is.
Dan Moyer
So So we’re here obviously talking about mental health and photographers and I put this thing out on Instagram that was like, you know, which which, you know, which of these topics do should I go you know, talk about and buy buy and for photographers and mental health was the one that shot up you know, as people were clicking on that one that they wanted to talk to and I think you wrote almost immediately when when I posted that poll and said hey, if you talk about this I will talk about that. I think it was like you and then Matt Gruber was like like right after you but you were the first person to reach out like hey if you need if you need guests you know I I want to be one of them. So what why the desire so quickly to reach out and and be somebody to talk about this
Marshall Scott
like, remember mental health is like normal or the stigma is kind of gone but like we don’t have conversations about it. We don’t get really deep with it and the empathy I feel like just isn’t isn’t there enough around the conversation so it’s been it feels like it’s been the narrative of my whole life has been this journey to overcome the struggles with mental health but there’s always been this overarching plot, in my my stories
Dan Moyer
yeah
Marshall Scott
me if you will, to a point where others can take something and either know they’re not alone or that there’s answers just help there’s ways and you know, it’s this deep conversation that just can’t be had over passive sharing
Dan Moyer
Yeah, it’s not like a quote on Instagram or something like that like they’re more than ever. I feel like when I first started January 1 2010 was the day I opened anymore photography. And not many people were talking about mental health and sort of the burnout, and how lonely it can be to be a photographer and all that stuff. But it is definitely more discussed and talked about today than I think it ever has been. And I’m grateful for that. Because therapy has done wonders for me over the last two years. And I definitely feel like not that long ago, maybe three years ago, or maybe right before the pandemic like 2019 You know, I was having just a rough patch. And I remember being at the Elmwood Park Zoo with some friends, and I was just mentioning to her was one of my longest friends and she was like, I can’t believe you’re talking about this so nonchalantly because my go to was alright, I’m gonna, if something’s wrong, I want to learn about it. I want to read about it and all that stuff. And she was so surprised still. So I feel like I guess we’re talking so much about it now. But it wasn’t even that long ago that there was still this weirdness about it, I mean.
Marshall Scott
there and we just need a little nudge over the edge to kind of help everybody along. Well, that’s
Dan Moyer
the whole goal between this like this, this topic and our conversation today. So you, you said that mental health and sort of your awareness around that has been a backdrop of your story for your whole entire life. So when did this sort of like come up? You know, I know it’s sort of pre show and some of the conversation we had before that, that you had a traumatic childhood and then that led into some some other things. So where do you want to start to do it
Marshall Scott
you realize, I realized one day that my earliest childhood memories, most of them, if you were to lay them out on paper, are not good ones. They’re I don’t immediately think of good things that happened to me in childhood I just think of the negatives and whether that’s a negative fixation on my end or whatever, as far as all that tells me is that as far back as my brain goes and digs into the reservoirs I have struggled in some way in my own head
Marshall Scott
if and you know Dad’s coming home and beaten them every day, it wasn’t like that. It was very psychological very
Marshall Scott
just emotional and manipulative and all this stuff with with mom and dad, but then also seeing
Marshall Scott
we love you every night. You know, we love you. And like in my brain that was love. You know, that was right. That’s what it meant to feel and give love. And I just carried that with me for my whole childhood with my friends with my relationships later on in life. And it wasn’t until not things were too late. But until way further along that I realized that that’s not the way it’s supposed to be.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, what was I mean, what was the the sort of defining moment where and it doesn’t have to be a defining moment, but you know, it’s not like most of us ever like to say, like, it’s not like there’s like, we all suddenly say, oh, we need therapy, there’s like usually something that like happens or like I feel like a catalyst that helps us realize that like something is going on deeper that we need to seek help, or we need to you know, find a way to get around that we can’t do it on our own. So what was that for you?
Marshall Scott
My mom and dad, you know, we’re very close now. But back then it was kind of always known that I just had this something wrong in my head like childhood depression, whatever you want to call it anxiety that I suffered. So I’ve been in and out of therapy and you know, since I was a kid, but as far as like a defining moment, I really think it comes down probably to college when I went to college and started meeting new people. I went to private school all my life. So my class size was like 35. Big, not really much social interaction with everybody knows everybody’s drama. But yeah, when I went to college and started experiencing, like social life, true social life and meeting new people, you’d make a friend group and then something in me would withdraw from that friend group and then go elsewhere and then withdraw. And it was wasn’t until I really realized that I practically met everybody on this 2000 big campus and somehow still had no social life that I craved. And it just got me really, really in a big depressive funk and kind of realizing that something’s wrong with me, I guess is kind of like what I put it as in my head is that I can’t get along with anybody. I’m not I’m not the person I want to be that real internal battle,
Dan Moyer
you thought something was actually something was wrong with you not like, like, you saw this as a problem like I’m, did you feel like you were unworthy? Did you feel like it was that there was an issue with like, you know, people don’t like you, because of the way you look? Or like, what was that thought like?
Marshall Scott
Here’s the way I was taught to, as a kid, told myself that, you know, I’m lazy. I told myself that I have terrible work ethic, I told myself that, you know, I’m annoying that very in my head and insecure about who I am as a person. And that in turn just made me you know, when you tell yourself, you’re a lazy person, every day, what happens, you start developing more lazy habits, because you’re expecting it. And it’s what you expect of yourself. And so that just spirals into a depression that makes you kind of waiting to be around, I guess, is what my brain thought of back back as a kid is like, you’ve just, no one wants to hang out with you.
Dan Moyer
So knowing that about you then Right? Like, you know, I’m hearing this the same time, like, this is what I’m learning about you now, but from what I know about you now, right, like you’ve seen, like a totally different person. So there’s this journey in there that has to involve some serious deep work the end. And also you’re looking at an extremely successful business owner. So like, you know, as you as you’re going through college, and all that kind of stuff you like, like as you’re journeying through college, what are the sort of things that you start doing that are actually even before healing even happens like what was happening before you really started to make like, healing happen?
Marshall Scott
Looking for something to really fill that. I don’t want to say void, but lack of like identity and purpose, I would say. So I mean, I changed my major, like four times I was pre med and then I was PA and then I was nursing and then I went to music. That’s what I ended up graduating with was a liberal arts degree and a focus in film scoring. And I don’t use that at all. I mean, I It’s my hobby, but yeah, I feel that but yeah, that’s that’s the story is non stop searching and changing. And yeah, it was when I graduated college that I kind of realized, I don’t really have anything, like inside of me, you know,
Dan Moyer
how did how did you fall into the photography world then?
Marshall Scott
camera that I bought, because me and a friend were gonna go backpacking, and naturally, I thought if you buy a good camera, a DSLR, you’ll take better photos. Kind of like how if you use a fountain pen, you’ll have better handwriting. That’s right, that one’s a great analogy. Stealing that. But um, yeah, so I got this camera. It sat in a drawer for like, a year and a half because the trip went down the drain. And this girl comes along and is like, I’m a photographer. And of course, I’m like, Yeah, me too. She’s like, Oh, what camera do you shoot and I remember the name and I said it just, oh, well, we can go out tomorrow with me. So I had to find this camera that I like, did not know where it was at all. And then she knew right away that I was not a photographer when I’m like shooting in auto and asking her what this is like the shutter. But yeah, that’s how I got fell into photography, but I put it away and honestly that one was just a total leap of faith when I was realizing as I was starting to graduate college, I did not want to do whatever nine to five career that my career path was going to land me in. And I liked taking pictures of nature and landscape and wasn’t really good at it and I just asked her at the time how do you make money off this and she goes, weddings did that’s all that’s the answer.
Dan Moyer
Was it was it literally like alright, I’m in college. And then I’m going to graduate and start taking pictures of weddings. Is that what happened?
Marshall Scott
Gotcha. Understand rollway and I didn’t touch it again until after I graduated. But, um, yeah, that that was a something that I just kind of looked at and was like, let’s, let’s try that camera thing again. Let’s try that wedding thing again. Actually had fun at that one wedding that I did so
Dan Moyer
and then okay, so then you like, get it? And you start a business? And also what would you do start a business
Dan Moyer
Wow. Okay, so as we’re talking, you know, sort of pre show you said that you’re like, some of your low points for like, 2016 2017. And before we may we talk about those years, but I just want to know, that was was photography, part of the ingredients to like building a better life to building some joy to you know, that kind of stuff, like, was a necessity or like, how did the photography come after this, like, you know, period that was pretty low and all that
Marshall Scott
kind of looked and said, I, we need to, we need to do something, you know, I can’t I had a part time job as a teacher at the time, and it just was not paying the bills. And so at first I’m like, let’s, let’s do something for money. You know, I have a camera, and I have music. You know, one of those is more likely to make me money than the other one as much as I love music. So I went with the camera, and at first it was it was a total money decision. It was let’s, uh, let’s do weddings and just try that wedding thing. put an ad on Craigslist, I booked $1,000 wedding on Craigslist from an ad. And then yeah, quit my full time or quit my job as a teacher off that one wedding. Because I said, if I can do it one time, I can do it. 25 more. Okay,
Dan Moyer
all right. So before we get into, you know, your adventure in the photography world, and then some of your like, real healing that you’ve done and all that kind of stuff. Where were you at, in in 2016 2017? That was like, things were not great. And what was sort of piling on you at that time that that made it the lowest point,
Marshall Scott
well buckle up. This is a this is a bumpy story. But
Dan Moyer
as we get into this, there’s like there’s somebody else out there that is going to, you know, be in this same. I don’t know if it’s gonna be your same predicament. But like, we were talking pre show that like, everybody’s feeling something so you know, I’m thankful one that you’re gonna share this and, and, like, be vulnerable. But alright, Sorry, I interrupted you
Marshall Scott
keep going here. Good. Yeah, so um, I, I was misdiagnosed for a while towards the end of college with bipolar disorder.
Marshall Scott
Middle Ground in your emotional, you know, reactivity, it’s fight or flight, you’re either on top of the world or everything is awful. You have a conversation with somebody and something they say can make you feel like a million bucks or feel like you shouldn’t be alive. It’s a laugh, but it’s kind of nervous anxiety because it’s so true. And it’s so real, those feelings that you feel when things are bad, it could be nothing, totally nothing. And it feels like your world is ending. And there’s a fight or flight response that’s often associated with that. And so I didn’t know that I was struggling with that. But um, you know, I went through the whole slew of medications I saw psychiatrists that pumped me up with at one time I was on 11 Different psychiatric drugs. And the I the thing that I do have or did have borderline personality disorder is not something that can be treated very effectively with drugs bipolar, can it be there’s drugs for it, but borderline is a more therapy treated condition. And so all these drugs are just in my body and making me a zombie and I’m going in and out of life, like knowing something’s wrong, but knowing that if I don’t take the medication, you know, it the anxiety is just unbearable. Yeah.
Marshall Scott
Things are certain people. For me, I found ideology like putting my entire life into like one person. And so I met a girl and she lived in or she went to school in Pittsburgh. And I met her in the summer of 2016. And right away, I just put all of my emotional hope and my entire life into this woman and Um, bless her heart, she gave everything back to me. But she had to go back to school and it crushed me I couldn’t handle not being by her side 24/7 Because I didn’t that was my coping mechanism at that point. I didn’t know that. But yeah, I even went as far as applying to the college she went to in Pittsburgh for the master’s program, met with the dean, three different times, and ended up getting accepted. I was making weekend trips to Pittsburgh, five and a half hour drive every single weekend to go see her. It was It consumed my life. And God bless her heart, she was able to recognize and she broke up with me that something was wrong, but it wasn’t natural. Yeah. And that just it ruined me. It crushed me. So that that started the snowball of some of the lowest points in my life where, you know, I tried to take my own life at that time in a hotel room.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, it was, it was a very rough and bumpy road for the next year all through, you know, 2017 it just was not looking back. I was miserable. It’s hard to tell it at the time, because you try to make excuses for yourself, but I was just not happy.
Dan Moyer
Did you were you like just, I don’t know, self medicating and sort of burying your, you know, after she broke up with you. You know, I think a lot of people end up turning to alcohol, they turn to food, they turn to, you know, drugs, whatever it is, they turn to sex. I know, it could be any of those things. But at some point, like, you know, some people, this is one of the things that I’m so fascinated by is like the human mind, and why some people can, can be in those like depths and, and like start crawling out of it. Right? Like, even if it’s if it’s a crawl, even if it’s you know, one, you know, one, it’s if it’s less than one foot in front of the other, how how do you start making that, you know, path out of there, like because you at some point, like you have to see some light you have to believe that something is worth living, right? Like there has to be this shift in your mindset or your, in your daily activities or something that gives you this like glimmer of hope. Right?
Marshall Scott
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was hard to, it was certainly hard to find it. I think it’s not like the stereotypical ray of sunshine like that one thing that just changes your life. It’s like, yeah, the heavens don’t just open up and give you that thing that you just chase and it makes you better it is it is much like the same way I talk about a business one thing is not going to change your business, it is a compounding result of effort on our end, it’s the same thing with our mental health, it has to be this moving target that we just we found the foundation and then build the walls and then put the roof on and then decorate it and before you know it you have a house but it’s not like you just snap it into existence. So for me, I had to move back with my parents and that whole toxic for me environment was it’s not like I went from completely high to completely low Make no mistake, I made the mistake of placing all of my hope my last resort into one person and that was you know my doing but that was like the last ray of sunshine that I had at that time. So I went to rock bottom because I thought I had nothing left. And then I moved back in with my my parents and it was just zombified, walking nonstop. And I wrestled with suicide for another year after that. And you know, I tried I tried I went and made efforts to go see therapists to go see psychiatrists on and off but after my experience with the drugs, I just I went cold turkey off medication. It nearly killed me, you know, vomiting black bile every day because I cold turkey 14 different medications at a time. And yeah, that was something I swore I’d never do again was get on get on medication. And I didn’t. But yeah, it was it was I gave effort on my end.
Dan Moyer
But alright, so like, obviously you’re like at this point where you like gold go cold turkey. That’s hard to say go cold turkey, cold turkey. And but you, you know you cut those things out because you realize they’re not good. And you have to start, I assume that you at some point started like substituting the negative things, the toxic things in your life, even though you’re moving back in with your parents with positive things, right? Like you cut out the medicine and you say that doesn’t work for me, which is self aware enough to be able to say okay, I’m stopping that because it doesn’t work for me. But then at some point I have to believe that you start putting some positive you start reaping lacing some of these negative things with positive things, right? You start filling the, you know, not good things, that you’re moving out of your life with new positive attitudes, new positive traits, you know, what was that? Like?
Marshall Scott
Yeah, I mean, it was. It’s interesting. My brain tends to I don’t know, if you follow the Enneagram at all, I’m an Enneagram. Seven. It just means I frame things you are Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Makes a lot of sense. Yeah, so we reframe things, we, we take a negative and we reframe but the thing is, if you’re just constantly doing that, eventually you run out of excuses to make for yourself. And that isn’t what reframing is, but to a certain point, it can become very unhealthy and you neglect yourself. And I think it was kind of realizing that even though I didn’t know what the Enneagram was at that time, but realizing that like, Okay, I’ve made a reason why I’m in this negative state, and all of them have been wrong. So it’s, it’s time for me not to do that, in my own head, it’s time to actually step outside of myself. And really, like, just look at the facts, you know, look at what, and at the time, I always said, you know, I know what I struggled with, with my family, I know what I struggled with, with my father and, and some of the emotional, physical abuse, it’s so it’s still so hard for me to say that. But that’s the key is, I never said that, up until that point, I never acknowledged, you know, what had happened to me in a very real sense. And I always told, you know, my friends, my partners, not my friends, but mostly my romantic partners that I never want to, I never want to treat you like, you know, my dad treated my mom or treated me. But it occurred to me that I didn’t break the chain, that I didn’t actually break the chain. Even though I kept saying that deep down, I was just reflecting what I what I knew. And I think that was a really big turning point for me to acknowledge that and wrestle with that feeling, and then go seek outside help. I still didn’t find the right therapist. But I mean, if we’re going to talk about one thing that absolutely turned me around, it would be meeting my wife. Now that she she played an instrumental role in, in me getting healthy and me getting better in ways that I just would never be able to describe.
Dan Moyer
So it was it. I mean, how was it different this time? You know, obviously, you had this relationship with somebody else before. But then here’s like a new woman who like if she just more encouraging you to see a therapist if she encouraging you, in what ways? Like what was the different difference between those relationships, despite also your age, and you’re getting older? And, you know,
Marshall Scott
yeah, well, at this point, again, it’s that compounding effect, I was self aware enough at this point, when we met in 2018, June of 2018. We started talking, by the point that our first date happened, I knew enough about the problems that I had, at least I didn’t know how to fix them at all. But I knew what they were on our first date, we spent like 30 minutes in a restaurant. And then I was like, you want to take a walk by the river. And then we sat by the river, and I proceeded to basically word vomit for two hours about all of the problems. And then there was a it was a lot of overshare.
Dan Moyer
But it’s your way, obviously. So
Marshall Scott
no. Now, she just looked at me and was like, I mean, I’m probably romanticizing it a little bit, but just like, you know, that’s fine. We’ll figure it out. And, you know, when our when our journey together.
Dan Moyer
So wait, did she you know, as you alright, so obviously, after the first date, you know, what happened that, you know, as you’re, you know, continuing to build this foundation and build the walls and put the roof on and all that kind of stuff, right? We talked about how you’re self aware, and you’re sort of looking at the things that aren’t good, and you’re self aware enough to start reframing some of the negatives into positives. Where does the rubber meet the road? Right? Like when, when you know, now you meet your, your now wife, but there’s a journey between 2018 and 2023 that like some work has to be done. And I know there’s some talk about probably mindfulness in there and more therapy, and your photography, business and all that. So like, When do when does the momentum start to build up for you? And what does that look like?
Marshall Scott
Yeah, so I mean, at this time, I had, like, you know, fresh into my full time don’t quite yet full time photography business. And actually met her she was a bridesmaid of one of my clients, who is now my brother in law. So but yeah, so I met her and the rubber really kind of hit the road when I asked God I’m a Christian and I I prayed for somebody for a long time and I kind of knew what my faults were and it did not know how to fit likes them. And right away when I met her, we met online on a dating app. And when I saw her, I just I swear I heard the voice of God telling me, this is the one. And I trusted it. i It was weird. I went through I didn’t even know that she was my best friend’s sister in law at the time. But I found that out later. Yeah. So I’m like, Oh, my goodness, wait. So it very much felt like a meant to be kind of thing as cheesy as that is. But I went on this honeymoon phase with her for you know, like three months, but then I got worse. And you got worse. Yeah, I personally like my mental health, the same cyclical, you know, Auntie Moon period, and then devastating Fallout and ups and downs. She asked, she just, she took it, and she took it. And she took it. And she just kept loving me and just kept, and it was watching that happen. Make no mistake, when we first started dating, I knew in my head, I’m like, this is the one. So I need to get better. And so I started seeing therapists with the intent of learning more about myself not looking for the fix. Somewhere along that road in the span of like, just under two years, I met a therapist who told who was in there for bipolar because I still thought I had it at this time. And she referred me to a different kind of therapist, who she said I essentially I don’t think you have Bipolar, I think you have something known as borderline. And thank God for that therapist, because she directed me to somebody who ultimately ended up changing my life, but it was in the span of those, like, two years, that it took me seeing the catastrophic, catastrophic fallout of my actions with, you know, my now wife, for me to, for it to hammer home. I don’t I don’t know, it took a lot of self awareness about how much destruction I was, you know, causing.
Dan Moyer
So did you, you said, when you started going through sort of a spiral down, you know, you’re not feeling great, but yet you’re, you know, soon to be wife at this point is saying, you know, just showing you what true love really is. And just You said she just kept loving you and loving you and loving you. What did that mean to you to have somebody just unconditionally, right? Like, there’s no, there was no conditions just like, Nope, I’m here.
Marshall Scott
Yeah. I mean, it was hard for me to see in the moment, most times because again, that fight or flight response that feels like it’s the end of the world a lot of times makes you feel like your actions are justified until hindsight, you know, is there but every time you’re in that hindsight mind, it just, it pushes you, when you when you see what things could be by looking at the negatives of what things currently are, it kind of like takes like flipping the script and being like, well, if this is negative, what is positive look like, and then seeing what positive looks like and working backwards. I mean, it’s just it’s so motivating, in the darkest circumstances, to find answers to find help to find happiness, meaning, you know, it really is one of the biggest motivators that kind of kept me going, even though things were extremely tough to even get out of bed in the morning, I was sleeping until 1pm Every day, you know, it’s and then up till 4am Every night because of anxiety. So it’s very tough to kind of, like be motivated with that terrible of like a nutritious and sleep schedule. And, you know, I was significantly overweight. So it was just a lot of compounding things, just draining my mental. So when you actually want to give effort to something, it’s not there.
Dan Moyer
But obviously feeling like this having this well. So one of the things that they say is that, like, you know, there are, there are things that help people when they’re, you know, in recovery. And one of the sayings is that like you’re never recovered, you’re always in recovery, right? Like you’re, you’re constantly at work and you’re constantly like looking at each decision that you make on a day to day, sometimes hour by hour, minute by minute basis to make sure that you’re moving in the way of enlightenment moving in the way, you know, towards this path of, you know, being the best version of yourself that you can be. And one of the things that they will that they always say is like, you know, people who thrive have a community around them. That’s why like, you know, people as they get older, there’s this epidemic of loneliness, like as people get older, especially during the pandemic, you know, that whole idea of like, dying from a broken heart and all that kind of stuff. So I have to believe that, you know, almost I’m not a therapist, you know, that’s definitely something that I’ve thought about going into but I’m not a therapist, so I’m just sort of like seeing your situation. But there had to be something very tangible for you of like having somebody along for that journey with you saying, you know, Nope, doesn’t matter. I’m going to love you no matter what I’m going to, you know, be here for you. I’m going to, you know, and even when you’re in this dark moment, and you’re sort of like you know, putting up the walls Don’t want to push somebody away that you have your now wife who says like, No, I’m just gonna keep on I’m gonna be there for you. And that’s like the community, I think that there are so many of us, you know, want, right is that was that am I on point with that?
Marshall Scott
Absolutely. I mean, even even with little things, like I told you my sleep schedule was awful. And what that meant is that I didn’t get to really see and spend time with my wife, it was like, we’re on different schedules, I’m energetic, because it’s the peak of my day when it’s the end of her day. So there’s conflict there, it just that that constant, her being the constant really just gave me something to anchor to, you know, and I don’t think that has to be a person. Often times don’t really know that it is, it could be a lot of different things, but I’m having that solid foundation, just like and that’s true even in the science of habit building, you know, you make it just like a non negotiable. And all of a sudden, that just becomes you know, your habit just you do you don’t even think about it. So I very much dislike this or Yeah, it’s forced me to be, you know, disciplined and go on this journey to figuring out some things that just completely changed my life.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, so I know that you were you said you were significantly overweight, and I’m looking at you now you’re looking all cut up. And I have I’ve seen you in your Instagram stories and stuff over the last couple of years, right? Like you got a trainer. You were there’s this one thing that really hit me where you talked about how you never wanted to exercise before weddings, I was afraid it would tire you out. And then he posted like a video of you dead lifting like several 100 pounds. And you’re like got a wedding today gonna crush it was just like getting ripped. So like, again, that’s that’s a pretty significant leap from you know, sleeping through the night going to bed at 4am waking up at 1pm to, you know, being motivated to work out and get in shape and and you kept it off and you’re looking good. And you’re looking sleek. And smelt you know swallows the goal sizes the prize. Let’s gains o’clock, who’s the guy who says that? I can’t remember anyway. But so like, you know, are you How did you get from that point of where you’re with your wife, and she’s just showing you this unconditional love but you can’t get out of bed to you know, I need a nutritionist I need I’m going to lose weight. I’m going to you know, crush my photography business. I’m going to open a new business, right? Like you’re just the momentum is building. You know, yeah. How are you? Talk to me about that.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, that’s, um, that’s a good question. I mean, the pandemic happened with like lockdown, it was on the cusp in like January when it was people were talking about in 2020. And it was like this thing that’s still over and you know, the eastern part of the world. But um, yep. Yeah, that was a that was a huge middle point. For me. In my journey to recovery with my affair. I went through a year long therapy program called dialectical behavior therapy. And it was a year outpatient. So three days a week, one day was an hour long conversation with your therapist, the next in the week was three hour group therapy. And then one more one hour with a therapist every week. If you missed two sessions in a row, you were kicked out No, no questions asked non negotiable. So it was very much like a commitment on your end. This was the person that that that person referred me to, for my you know, condition. But I was like, three quarters of the way done with that, and already noticing the vast effects of what dialectical behavior therapy does, and mindfulness meditation. I mean, I was meditating for just five minutes every day, and the effects of that alone rippled through my entire life. So you want to you know, you talk about the pandemic, and then we have locked down, I had enough mindfulness and awareness to kind of look and see, okay, I have a problem I had I have food disorder, and eating disorder that I still struggle with was a very binge and purge, eating disorder. And that was a coping mechanism for me throughout, you know, childhood and young adulthood. But I looked and you know, I’m like, Okay, we’re all gonna be on lockdown, nothing to do. I’m gonna eat my way into oblivion and get worse. I wasn’t happy with how I looked at the time. I wasn’t happy with, you know, my physical capacity to kit and it was actually my photography assistant that I was hiring at the time for the 2020 year, when he asked me how much does your bag weigh? And I said, Oh, it’s heavy. It’s probably about like 75 pounds. And he’s like, there’s no way and I said, yeah, no, it’s 75 pounds, at least. And then he said, weigh it. And I went and weighed myself. And then I weighed myself with the pack on in this thing was 23 pounds. And it fulfilled me like 75 And that just flipped the switch. And I was like, I’m going to make fitness and nutrition, my hobby to get me through this pandemic. Oh, snap. Yeah, so I put I was like, I don’t want to and I know what I’m gonna get When it comes from flipping the script and looking and seeing what the negative is, we’re on lockdown. We all don’t want to be, we’re gonna get bored. And I’m like, that’s a negative. So what’s the opposite of that? And to me that was getting invested in something I always wanted to do, which is, you know, being healthy and, you know, staving off illness and building a strong body. So I just went on it got a nutrition coach got was a digital barbell
Dan Moyer
you got right, yeah, digital barbell,
Marshall Scott
my life to
Dan Moyer
weight. So so it was this at the same time that you were also doing the outpatient therapy like all through 2020 that you were doing the nutrition, the exercise, the outpatient therapy, all that stuff.
Marshall Scott
Yeah. So if you look at the, like, the timeline, there’s a small amount of overlap, and not a whole lot, but it’s like, kind of like I graduated in February, March from the program. And I started like, doing the recovery. And like, you know, January, February, it was a little bit of overlap. But, you know, it came at a really good time.
Dan Moyer
Wow. Okay, so you would finish the outpatient therapy? You know, February, March, and then when did you start digital barbell?
Marshall Scott
It’s hard for me to remember I think it was like the beginning of March, and then I graduated at the end of March. So there was like, a one month over. Oh, graduated
Dan Moyer
there program. I gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah, man. Okay. So the therapy part really helped to sort of help flip that switch, right? Like, like, do you credit the therapy part of, you know, helping get your mind right for when the pandemic actually hit and things locked down? To be able to say, Okay, this is, I’m going to eat my way, you know, through this pandemic, if I don’t take some action, like, the better I think the better question would be, you know, do you know if you wouldn’t have gone to therapy? If that if you would have had that same insight?
Marshall Scott
Do you? I mean, I don’t I don’t think I would have I don’t think I would have arrived there in my head. It’s always hard to say, but I mean, I would place all my bets on it all my chips on it that it was because I went through this, this specific therapy that just completely flipped the script. It’s just like, we keep saying that phrase, but it did. I mean, it changed the way I looked at everything. And what’s what’s crazy is that therapy, they even said, they all practice it. They’re, they’re healthy, they’re mentally healthy, but they practice especially in today’s distracted age of technology and just stimulation. It’s one of the largest contributing factors to just wandering minds in which turns into depression and, you know, ultimate mental depletion throughout the day to day and if you can’t take control of that, it’s so hard to make decisions, like the one that I made, but really any that kind of like, are important that we need to make that decision making power, like goes out the window. Yeah.
Dan Moyer
So you said you’re your past therapist, you’re in and out with therapists for a while. And she gave you this referral to this what was it called? dialectic
Marshall Scott
therapy, dialectical behavior therapy? DBT.
Dan Moyer
DBT? What’s what’s different about that kind of therapy? What how does it work?
Marshall Scott
So I don’t know if I have my history. 100% right here, but um, it’s relatively new, like really new interest, it’s kind of just being I forget what it was, I think it was in the last like, 10 years or something. But it’s come out and started becoming a thing, but Marsha Linehan is the person who founded it. But um, yeah, she is somebody who spent time with Tibetan monks and looked for answers on how to alleviate things like anxiety and depression, because, you know, Tibetan monks and monks in general are kind of known to be this thing that they’re able to control their emotions so well. And she kind of saw a link there but studied with them for like a month or two. And after that, she ended up being coming back and looking at the science behind psychology and today’s mental health and the science behind what happens with Tibetan monks, I found a link and ultimately found a very, very important link between mental health and like meditation. And so all the program, even though it’s designed for people who do struggle with those emotional like I said, the extremes black and white thinking found a way for meditation to be a huge link in solving that that middle ground that gap, closing those ends and finding a middle. But that science is something that every single person can benefit from. I mean, obviously, it can be a cure for somebody with like my, and I didn’t know that it could be a cure. But the day from day one, my therapist sat me down and said, Are you on any medication right now? And I think I gave in and I was on one, bipolar medication. And she basically told me, you will not be on medication for the rest of your life if you graduate this program, because this program can keep your what you have, and I never heard that before. I thought it was something that was for the rest of my life. I densified with it, I when I talk to people, I placed that identity on myself, so I’m a depressed person or like I have borderline personality disorder. And I spoke about it as though it was my middle name. and several people call that out in my life and kind of made me aware of that, but hearing that it could be cured. Yeah, at first, I was skeptical, but I was
Dan Moyer
wondering if you like, believed her right away when somebody makes like such a big claim. It’s like, Well, okay.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, it wasn’t like, right now. I was like, we’ll see in from day one. She was like, I told her, I was gonna walk out and like, she’s like, you can walk out if you want, you know, just like, I don’t. I don’t, I’m here to it. Because I make money. Like, it’s my job. Right? Like, but I’ll tell you what, if you spent the time with me, and give me give me your time and invest yourself into this program, you won’t regret it. It’ll fix you. And that convinced me to stay another?
Dan Moyer
Wow. Holy moly, yeah. This, this whole mindfulness and meditation thing is definitely something that has popped up on my radar, maybe, you know, two, three years ago, but even more now through the dude who Andrew Huberman is the neuroscientists from Stanford, I think, or something, maybe, I
Marshall Scott
think so I forget.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, so he’s got a podcast called The Human podcast. And his whole thing is just like straight science data. And there’s a whole episode about meditation and, and sort of the the effects of meditation and prayer and what they do on your mind. And the studies that were created around that, and people who just had this, like a habit, 10 minutes a day, sometimes as simple as like, you know, breath counting is one of the meditation practices where you literally just like, focus on the breath in and out for a period of time, you know, there’s all these different modalities, but there’s these massive, like Cliff drop offs in reduced anxiety, reduced stress, you know, better, better exercise, better sleep, you know, all these massive benefits just from taking these 10 minute, like Transcendental Meditation, I think, is one of the ones that I only heard about recently, but it’s like 20 minutes in the morning, 20 minutes in the evening. And, you know, everyone has their own different style of practice. And they’re all different tools in the toolbox. But it, the more I sort of look at it in the more research, I find it now, even just an anecdotal evidence from your perspective that like this literally healed you just from, you know, meditation. That’s amazing. So what was your practice? Like? Or like, what’s what is your meditation look like now?
Marshall Scott
Yeah. So that I think that’s one of the best questions to ask. Because I think there very much is still a stigma on the idea of meditation, I don’t think it’s a negative stigma. And that if you say you do it, people are going to judge you. But I think that when we say meditation, we tend to think of, especially mindfulness meditation, because it has that second word on it, we immediately go to sitting cross legged with your arms in the air and going home, or Oh, focusing on our breath, and the imagery of a ship out on the sea. And like, well, these are guides. And they’re just kind of the classic guides that we’re used to. It’s, it doesn’t have to be meditation. Ultimately, you know, mindfulness meditation is defined as being aware of the present moment, without any label or judgment. And that’s, it sounds simple thing. Yeah. But it’s very difficult, at least at first. And so an easy way to start is to think about what does that mean. And so when we think about what it really means to be present, it means to just not have labeling or judgmental thoughts on anything. And that’s very hard to do. And one of the ways we realize how hard it is for us is to do things like sit down, close your eyes, so you don’t have any external stimulus. That’s all you’re the reason that you close your eyes. And then just focus on your breath. Don’t force your breath, just focus on it, and notice the feeling out of your nose. Notice the feeling, you know, as it tickles your nose when you breathe in and out or what however you’re breathing, but don’t label it. And if you label it The important thing to do, or you judge it, or you have like a thought, like, Oh, I’m doing so good, right now at meditating. That’s a thought. Yeah, so it’s like, it’s hard. But um, what you do is you just acknowledge that you had a thought, dismiss it, and then go back to just being and that act, this will blew my mind because it couldn’t it didn’t click at the time until this was said to me, but that act is what meditation is. Meditation is not, is not focusing. Meditation is the act of batting away the thought, because it’s like a mental rep. It’s like going to the weight to the gym, you don’t go to the gym and deadlift, 500 pounds, you rep something small and you do that 20 times and then you do that once a week for five years. And then you get to the point where you’re, you know, people sit down to meditate and say, I suck at this. Like, you wouldn’t say that if you go to the gym and worked out you’d be like I’m working out. So mindfulness. Yeah, it’s very much that thing. But that’s the rudimentary way to do it. But once you realize at the heart of it what it is You can do it anywhere, anytime, any activity, anything, you can even do it right now in this conversation because your average person will often think of what they’re going to say next, when they’re engaged in a conversation. So that way they have something ready to go. That’s not mindfulness. Mindfulness is actively listening. And then thinking of your thought, once they’re done,
Dan Moyer
very hard to do, very hard to do. So many of us listen to respond, rather than listening to understand listening to hear listening to feel, right. And this, this, like, meditation practice, is something that when I first started therapy, which was like, early 2021, I think it was like the the first thing that my therapist was like, This is what you need to start with. It’s like, yes, let’s keep meeting Let’s talk. Like, if you if you have a good fit with me, yes, like, let’s keep going. But this is the thing that you need to continually practice because I was going because I was angry, I was frustrated, you know, I felt helpless. I was overwhelmed. And it was this and I, he like, sent me to TED video, Ted Talks, to watch. And I remember being skeptical about it, even though like I’m, I tend to be pretty open about most things and trying things. But like, sitting there, and taking, like time, right? Like, I remember listening to a podcast recently, this guy was like a high functioning CEO or something like that, who like said, he’s like, I haven’t really together, um, good, life is good. I forget why he says he was trying meditation. But, you know, I think he was like, at a retreat or something. And he’s at this retreat, and this guy’s like, I’m gonna let him lead a meditation practice. And they sit down. And he’s like, all you have to do is, you know, just close your eyes. And just focus on your breath, right, like focus on when, like, the moment, it’s like you’re inhaling, the moment, you start to exhale, and like when they separate, and when they stop. And, and when they transition from one to the other. And, and he’s like, can just do that. And the guy’s like, saying, like, how he’s this high functioning person, he’s like, I couldn’t do it. My brain just kept wandering, it was all over the place. And then I, you know, like, Oh, I did it, right. Like, I got 10 reps, I, you know, I took 10 depressed, and my brain didn’t wander, and he’s like, Oh, crap, my brain is actually wandering right now. It’s funny how that works. It’s
Marshall Scott
always been difficult. For me, at least it was maybe it’s the reframing of a seven. But I looked at that. And once I realized how bad I wasn’t at it, it immediately became a great thing. Because I don’t know, it’s like walking around carrying an atlas stone all your life, and just thinking that’s the way it is. And then somebody showing you how you can get stronger and make that stone way less. It’s like, if you show you how weak you really are, it just shows you how strong you can become. And so when I was told, you know, or shown just how weak My mind was focusing, but there’s scientifically proven ways to enhance your focus. It was one study in particular, that actually really convinced me. And it was, I forget what the experiment was called. But they put two isolated teams into rooms, one was given a plate of cookies that they were allowed to eat before solving a puzzle. And the other was given a plate of cookies that they weren’t allowed to eat before starting the puzzle. And both were put on a 30 minute timer. So one had the pleasure of indulging in cookies and milk for 30 minutes and the other had just smell on an empty stomach and, and sit there and use all their willpower not to eat these cookies. And then they were all given an impossible puzzle to solve. It had no solution. And the goal was to see how long before people tapped out and said, I give up, I can’t solve it and then walk out of the room. And the team that was able to eat the cookies did significantly longer, they were able to give so much more mental effort to the puzzle, they lasted almost twice as long. And the team that had to resist the cookies gave up significantly quicker. And what that proved is that willpower is indeed finite. It is not something that is uncapped, we we have caps on our willpower. But other studies have proven that we can grow that cap we can enhance how much storage is in that battery for willpower, and that alone, you just draw the connection and you’re like, oh my gosh, I can get away out of this. There is a way out of this, you know, headspace,
Dan Moyer
holy moly, is that so do you really credit meditation and like a daily practice of it as being the single biggest shift for your, your mental health over your entire life thus far,
Marshall Scott
that end my faith in Jesus Christ as the equal and equal measure? Because in my head, it’s his it’s his science that, you know, rules the world. So acknowledging that it was, yeah, he gave me that gift of understanding it and it saved my life in multiple ways.
Dan Moyer
Were you always a believer or was your faith sort of strengthened recently? Through this, this process?
Marshall Scott
I grew up in a Christian household, which now that you know, my past with my household, it kind of left me very confused in that aspect. I thought I knew what it was to have faith in Jesus. And really, it was at that low point, I lost God, I walked away from the church, I walked away from my faith. And then when the science was introduced in my life, I gave I put all my faith in that. And then things weren’t quite right or whole inside of me until I put that back onto the faith and said, it’s not the world that gave this to me. It’s it’s Jesus that gave it to me that that yeah, that that happened and was enhanced much more, because of this. So
Dan Moyer
good to know. All right. So as you’re going through the pandemic, everything sort of like you’re starting to the momentum starting to build up and all that stuff. You know, did you have a moment sort of as we were talking pre show, you know, you, you said, like, now you’re able to sort of like, look around and you’re happy and you feel like you’re sort of thriving, you know, was there a moment where you, or a time when you woke up and sort of like, took a deep breath? And was like, wow, like, I feel good?
Marshall Scott
Yeah, yeah, it’s kind of crud. I can’t recall if there was a specific moment where that happened. But I just noticed that every day I noticed the trend, I think that’s what happened. I kind of like woke up one day and was like, I’m feeling better and better. The more that I put into this thing, the more that I invest in myself, I get back out of myself. And it’s very tangible result in your feet, you know, your emotions. You also notice little things along the way to like, if something ruined my day, like a flat tire, oh my gosh, back three years ago, it’d be the worst I would have like, Why is the world so unfair? I complain about it, you know, but um, then I’ll never forget, I bought the brand new iPhone 13 Pro Max, it was so happy about it, I paid full cash, I was like, I don’t want a phone payment, nothing. That gave me a good deal on my trade. And literally the same day, I dropped a dumbbell on it in the gym, and cracked the screen smashed the entire thing. Like it was bad. And I just looked at it. And I immediately had that gut response of like, no, why. And then, almost in the exact same split second, I just felt it go, it happened. Notice that it happened. What can you do about it now, nothing but get a new phone and complaining about it is going to suck the rest of the I had a great day after that. I just like I put it aside. And I don’t know that feeling was very, very motivating to be able to take control of your emotions and say, I can choose to let this affect me. Or I can flip the script and still choose to have it doesn’t not everything’s sunshine and rainbows not all good days. But I can choose to dwell on that negative or I can let it drift away. Like the thought that you have when you meditate. And that really is the core of the meditation is to make that a habit. So that way when it comes time that you need it in an in a fight or flight response in an emotionally reactive response, that habit is solidified. You don’t want to practice when you’re struggling. You want the practice to make the struggle non existent.
Dan Moyer
Whew, I like that quote. I’m gonna write that one down. Have you ever heard of this idea of like, the, like how meditation and mindfulness a practice of it helps you like slow the car down and not fall in the pit? Have you ever heard of this analogy? Yeah, yeah. So it’s like you’re driving along and, and there’s like a hole in the ground. And you’re like driving along and all sudden, bam, you’re in this like black hole, you’re in a pit, right? And you’re surrounded by darkness. It’s like that darkness is depression anxiety with all the things right? And then like next day, you know, week later, whatever it is, you’re driving down the road, bam, all sudden, you’re like in this blackness, right? And you like, it’s just there and it’s just ever present. And you can’t tell when it comes on and all this stuff. But you start to do meditate, you start to you know, get some of these stronger habits that help you to increase your reservoir of of energy to deal with something that like you’re saying before that to be able to deal with the, the bad accident or the thing that happens or you drop your phone or whatever, right? And so you’re driving down the road, and all sudden right before the pit you like catch a glimpse of the hole. It’s like, oh, okay, I saw the hole coming this time. And then like you keep using your practice, you keep meditating you keep keep taking deep breaths, you keep focusing on your breath. And it’s like, over time, you’re able to like slow the car down right before you fall in right? And then even further over time are able to slow down, stop, get out of the car, walk up, look around, go around the pit and you’re able to sort of eventually avoided altogether. You heard that one before.
Marshall Scott
Oh, I love that. I haven’t heard that that detail. But that is that is a really great visual of what’s actually out happening when you meditate, and because often we can just meditate without knowing the goal. And that makes it very hard because it is it is challenging, just like going to the gym is. But if you don’t see what the goal is, it can be very frustrating to just keep doing it anyway. But if you know what the outcome can be all of a sudden you’re like, oh, okay, I see how it’s going to work. And it’s not like it just flips a switch. It’s that little compounding effort, like you said, you’re not just going to immediately start meditating and see the hole and then drive around it. But, you know, oftentimes we don’t, when we’re in these situations, whether it’s severe depression, whether it’s anxiety out the wazoo, we only know what we’re feeling in that moment. And then it’s very hard for us to work backwards and identify what the feelings were before that feeling. Or what led up to that feeling, or what happened in our brain that we were telling ourselves or the brain was running on its autopilot that caused that, like, where did it all come down to mindfulness really helps you start from you know, the end, and work backward over time. And then you start noticing more of how you behave and how your mind works. And that that is the act of taking control of your mind. You know, our mind is on autopilot so much that we’re very rarely like in actual conscious activity. It’s very rare.
Dan Moyer
So speaking of that conscious activity, it sounds like you know, as you’ve been building this better version of you, there have been some habits, right that you’ve that you’ve sort of worked on, right? Obviously, there was, you know, the therapy and mindfulness and meditation, that’s like one part of it. There’s the exercise component of it, and the nutrition component. I’m assuming that you probably don’t go to bed at 4am and sleep till 1pm anymore.
Marshall Scott
I don’t have the best sleep schedule still. But I am a bit of a night owl, but I have a healthy working schedule.
Dan Moyer
Okay. All right. So those are like some of the big habits. And then obviously, you have community with your wife. I’m assuming you might have like a church community, as well that you’re so these are all these like healthy habits that you have built is do you have sort of like a like the non negotiables every day that that helped keep you centered and help keep you sort of away from that dark hole.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, absolutely. And none of these came in all at once. Like I made a list and just started doing them. I tried that does not work because the list is the goal. And then that goal is unachievable. So I just started with one at a time, once I realized that that was not working, start with one at a time. The first non negotiable was the gym, you know, that was just, regardless of how much weight I lift, regardless of if I’m super tired, maybe I only get one set out of my nine and doesn’t matter, I show up. And then started working on that. Because I know there’s a massive correlation between physical exercise and mental health. So for me, that was the one that I wanted to put a lot of my effort on for a long time. And so it was, you know, focusing on showing up then focusing on actually doing the whole set and then focusing on giving it my all, and that alone is an act of meditation. And so that builds a stepping stone for the next habit you try to introduce for me that was the kitchen. What kind of foods are slowing me down? What kind of foods are helping my brain health? How much is my water intake impacting my brain? Spoiler, it’s a lot. But yeah, the water matters quite a bit. But yeah, and then slowly, I started adding on more things, I read more, I, my therapist called it add joys, and I forget what it was. But it boiled down to do things when you need purpose, you add more of those, when your life lacks joy, you add more of those and it’s always in flux. Sometimes you might need to work more towards a goal. Sometimes you need to stick take a step back from that and add social life hobbies, whatever, but keeping a good pulse on that. But yeah, now I do things like for the past four months, I’ve been taking a cold shower every morning. A lot of scientific benefits of that. I know that’s a very like, million dollar little weird thing to say.
Dan Moyer
But it’s true. I mean, there’s like some studies about brown fat and like all that kind of stuff in cold adaptation below. But yeah, cold shower. Okay, cold shower every morning.
Marshall Scott
That’s that’s been a big one for me, man, if any. If you can make it like two minutes in an ice cold shower all the way to the right don’t don’t jump out. If you go all the way out, man, like 30 seconds cold, it’s shivers and then something happens in your body where it sends a burst of adrenaline to warm up your body. And that has so many good effects on cardiovascular health, your brain health, dopamine, you wake up and and you actually get warm, the water stops feeling cold and it starts feeling just like running tap water and very weird feeling but yeah, after now it’s like a non negotiable it’s just every single day and I feel like that is a really great start to my day.
Dan Moyer
It’s gotta wake you up, right? Like if especially if you’re hopping out of bed and you’re you know, yeah,
Marshall Scott
that’s awesome. That’s one of the big reasons why I did it because I realized when I looked at my day, what I didn’t like is that I took me like an hour to get into mental focus ready? It was like an hour, an hour and a half and I’m like how can I like really? He save that hour and a half I feel like I don’t need an hour and a half to get into the mindset of that’s a lot of time you know that’s a really like spent getting into the mood and I don’t mean that we should be in hustle culture. But I mean even like cognitively like I want to open my Bible and read for that maybe leisurely relax in my in my chair. And I looked around the science around the cold showers thing. And yeah, as soon as I get out of bed in the morning, I just jump right in and I’m ready to go. I feel great. It’s very happy. I don’t feel anxious. So it’s a good thing.
Dan Moyer
My, my wife and I are, we’re on the same sleep schedule. But I am for sure. They call it a morning lark and a night owl. So my wife is the night owl. She gets like a burst of energy in the evening, right? Like, we could be seven o’clock 730 Kids start going to bed. And we’re both like sort of, you know, starting to get ready for sleep. I’m in sleep stage one. And she’s like, boom, all sudden, she gets popped up in the morning like 5:36am I am eyes open like moment I get up. I’m ready to go. Like, let me get let me do some deep work. Do you have the Bible app? The YouVersion Bible app? Yes. Yes, I do. Okay, that’s awesome. Like they’re, you know, they’ve got like a new scripture, like with a video every morning. So I hit that up, and like, I’m ready to go. But my wife is the same way in our like, she has to log on like, right right away. She’s in the corporate world. But it takes her like a really long time. And there’s this really amazing sleep scientist named Matthew Baker. Matthew Baker. Right. Yeah, that’s right. And he wrote a book called Why We sleep and he’s got his own podcast, and of course, all the things. And he’s like, he’s like, You can’t change it. Like you can. You can do things like you know, waking up and taking a cold shower or whatever, but you can’t change which way you get your energy, apparently. Yeah, I think it’s fascinating. Because I was always like, we were always trying to, like, I’m useless. After like, we’re, it’s five o’clock now that we’re recording this and like, I can feel myself like after like, 6pm. Like, my wife might die. It’s pretty good point. Like, I’m, I exercise all the time. But nope. Like, it’s just after 6pm My brain has done.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, that’s very much my wife. I’m still a night owl, even though I but that’s my little like mental hack to getting in some, you know, adding the jumper cables, if you.
Dan Moyer
Okay, so you’ve got good habits, you’ve got all that. So it’s worth sort of, like, you know, continuing on in this journey, you know, you’re at this like, it’s 2023. Now, April, where do you? Where are you going from here? Right? Like, you’re still having a photography business, but you’ve got a new business going. But that adds some stress to your plate, right? Like, how are you sort of viewing like the direction you want to go and how you’re building trying to get there?
Marshall Scott
Yeah, it’s, um, it’s good stress, I would say the good stress is something that you create with boundaries and a healthy mindset. I think those are the two absolute necessary keys to creating a good type of stress that serves you and pushes you because stress can be really good doesn’t have to be a negative thing. It can be something that it’s a sense of importance towards a goal or a mission. But yeah, I mean, I stopped, we knew we wanted to make this business about like 910 months ago. And so it’s been in development for that long. But I set very clear boundaries, we both me and my partner intentionally booked far less work this year. For weddings, it was an intentional drop in income that we made to free up time. And I didn’t want to start something like this until I had good processes on my photography business that kept me involved in like 10% of the work that’s needed. So that when that was all set, and then we kind of like it was a very healthy transition very holistic to, to my life and we set clear boundaries, we don’t work, you know, if we’re all meeting because our wives are in the business as well. So the four of us would often while we were planning and developing meet in the living room, you know, at like 10 o’clock, and then just sit in front of the TV and go over the direction, some of the, the website and all that, but we put a hard stop on it at around three, and we’d say like, we created a business to have more freedom in our lives, let’s not become a slave to another one. So very intentional decisions like that.
Dan Moyer
Love it. Okay, so as we wrap up here, you know, you can obviously share about shooting thrive and and sort of what you’re trying to do there because I think it’s something that is something that I think a lot of photographers could definitely use, right? Like everybody thinks when you outsource is like, oh, let’s go to editing, calling and all that stuff. But there’s this other part, and whole other parts of business that shouldn’t be outsourced or you consider and you’d go to the next place, and I think that’s where you come in. So
Marshall Scott
tell me about you and Dr. Yeah, so um, I was very big on outsourcing with my current business, but I, I didn’t pick the traditional routes of outsourcing. Like for example, I didn’t go to a company for my calling because they were all big companies. I chose somebody who was not a photographer to be my color, and I trained her up she ended up administrative assistant background. And so I was like, that’s perfect. I don’t want you to have your own biases when picking photos, I’m just going to teach you how to do it my way. And then that’s the only way you know. So, yeah, I kind of took that process and metal that with like, needing some aspects of the photography and was like, alright, we’re really good at blogging, we’re really good at SEO. That’s how we find a large significant portion of our leads my partner, I got 400 inquiries last year 80% of them were from SEO. And so we’re like, how do we make this accessible to people who either don’t do it, but know they need it, or struggle, because blogging can be very much one of those painful things in the back of our mind that we know we should do. And we beat ourselves up around it for and we have a backlog piling up. But it’s just it’s there’s a lot of unknowns there in either how to do it correctly, if you’re doing it right. With SEO, does anybody even reading this? And no, they’re not if you’re not doing SEO correctly, but yeah, I just hate so the problem. So yeah, we created a business around both things because they go hand in hand blogging and SEO. So with the goal of it’s in the name, shoot and thrive, you know, we want our clients to understand that we’re here for them, that we created this business to get to know them and grow with them. So that way, all they have to do is shoot and thrive. None of the stuff that they don’t like to do.
Dan Moyer
That’s awesome. Okay, give out all the links, as we’re wrapping up here, given all the links where people can find you or be looking, fine, shoot and thrive, how they can potentially work with you all that kind of stuff.
Marshall Scott
Yeah, so shoot and thrive.com all one word, shoot and thrive. That’s our main website, and then facebook.com/group/shoot. And you can just search it on Facebook, Instagram, all it’s all the same thing. But no matter how you find us that you’ll be able to find all the other socials throughout it. But yeah, we hope to hope to see you along because the community that we’re growing is really cool on Facebook. Seeing people share more about themselves and, and helping out it’s a it’s a really cool thing definitely started this as a means to share what we’ve learned both procedurally and the blog stuff, sure, but we love engaging in conversations, like, you know, time management, marketing, the whole nine yards, because businesses photographers, it’s, it’s a lot, you wear a lot of hats, you know, but then you also wear that creative hat that you want to wear all the time.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, I love that you’re creating a community around it, because I feel like, again, it’s it can be extremely lonely, extremely isolating, when you have a different schedule than everybody else when nobody quite understands how difficult it is to, you know, be present on a wedding day when you’ve got stuff going on, too. And bla bla bla. So I think it’s awesome to be able to, you’re not just focused on like, the post production side of it in terms of like, calling and editing, but also saying like, no, like, this part is also really important. But let’s also talk about, you know, these other important things that come along with, you know, running a business and all that kind of stuff. So Oh,
Marshall Scott
yeah, so bring it home, I mean that the community is the anchor, much like my wife was the anchor for me to make positive changes, you know, like, a lot of people will buy courses, and sometimes they work sometimes they don’t, but if it’s something that you’re gonna struggle with, maybe maybe you don’t need a course, or do it yourself, maybe you need a community to engage with, and be the anchor the foundation, that kind of keeps you, you know, engaged in a live with your goals, pursuit of your goals. So hopefully we can be a small part of that.
Dan Moyer
I can’t man. Well, this conversation was, I think, I think people I believe people are going to be impacted by it. And I’m really thankful that you were here. And that your, your story of sort of being able to talk about these things, especially suicide attempts, and all that, like I have several friends who I’ve known for many parts of my life that, you know, came out in 2020 and 2021 as being suicide survivors. And I think that, you know, being able to shed some light on that and not feel shame around it is important, you know, because it’s like a heavy weight that so many people are carrying around with hopelessness and you know, being tired all the time and frustration and burnout and you being able to share that story and then know where you were and see where you’re at today and see how you are thriving and when if anybody follows you on social media, hashtag martial Scott photography, the martial Scott photo or martial photography on Instagram, martial Scott photo, yeah, martial Scott photo, if you go on there, like, my dude is just happy all the time. You know, your stories are always always so exciting and thrilling. And when you see like, behind the scenes of you, it’s just such a wonder to, you know, see you really on this, like, very impactful place of being like coming into, like, you know, a good version of you. And I’m thankful for you to be able to share your story and be vulnerable, and all that and, and I’m just thankful you’re here. It’s awesome. Yeah,
Marshall Scott
I’m very thankful to be here. And I’m very thankful that this kind of conversation is currently happening and I’m thankful that you’re a reason why. So, thanks for inviting me and hopefully somebody He can relate to this story or at least get a nugget of information out of it. That’s useful. Nick. Yeah, man. Thanks for coming.
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