In the first episode of the Getting Noticed Series, I’m honored to talk with Carolina Guzik of The Tog Republic. Carolina has an absolute wealth of knowledge to share on marketing in the photography world, including key tips from her course The Art of Pinning. Our conversation is a reminder for all photographers that without good marketing strategies, your audience just won’t find your work.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!
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REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES:
Carolina’s transition from marketing to the photography industry (3:37)
Without good marketing strategies, your audience won’t see your work (9:57)
Marketing without being “sales-y” (14:55)
Pinterest as a photographer’s marketing tool (24:18)
Crafting your posts on Pinterest (37:22)
Troubleshooting your marketing strategy (44:46)
The Art Of Pinning (48:53)
Connect with Carolina (56:03)
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:
CONNECT WITH CAROLINA GUZIK
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: WWW.DANIELMOYERPHOTOGRAPHY.COM
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
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Thank you!
-Dan
Review the Transcript:
Dan Moyer
Hey photographer friends, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the focus photographers podcast where photographers gather. I’m your host, Dan Moyer. And today’s episode is the first episode in a series that I’m calling getting noticed, which is all about how to get people to see your work and see your website and come there and then contact you to pay your money to photograph them. But before we get into that, I want to give you a little update, because big news is that I had a huge major update to the focus photographers website. When I first put it up there, I realized like, you know, I, I was just putting up a website because I needed to have one because I’m a personality and all that stuff. And I realized that as I was making it, I was making a website that was not me that it was sort of talking about me and trying to make me look cool, which fun fact I am not cool. And as I was looking at it recently, I said that I need this to show you all out there, how I’m here to serve you. So I really focused in on the three ways that I tried to give back to the photography community and that is the focus five newsletter that is this podcast, and that is through one to one coaching. So if you go to focus photographers.com You can check it out, take a look at the update. Let me know what you think. And I’m excited to share with you all now my guest today is somebody I look up to very much. She was the first podcast I was ever on as a guest and it comes full circle today. I think actually almost two years later that I get to have her on my podcast. Her name is Karolina gooseneck she needs no introduction. She is the host of the TOG Republik podcast. She has this amazing course that we’re going to talk about today called The Art of pinning. She’s got all different ways that you can engage with her and really talk to her about the thing that she’s passionate about which is marketing. She has a degree in mass communications and advertising. She is really amazing in such a wealth of knowledge and I’m so thankful that I’ve got to have her on the podcast today to share all of her knowledge with you. So without further ado please welcome my friend Karolina Guzman
Dan Moyer
Alright friends I am beyond excited right now and here’s the reason why I’m beyond excited is because my guest Karolina Guzik is the person who invited me on the first ever podcast that I was on. I’m pretty sure I was on her podcast before I even had my own podcast. And she believed in me and she is one of the biggest cheerleaders on my journey. So I’m so excited to have you here on my podcast today.
Carolina Guzik
I love this. I was waiting for this invitation. I see your success. And I’m like, What am I gonna get any invites? So finally,
Dan Moyer
what success I mean, I know somebody over there on the other side of the microphone has 150,000 Plus downloads on her podcast, right?
Carolina Guzik
Close to 200. Now listen, you know, it took a while to get there. But you know, every download download counts. So I’m happy.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, I mean, you are somebody who I constantly see constantly showing up constantly like cheerleading for other people, right? Like you magnify a lot of people’s voices. You’re constantly just like putting content out there. Like the website reviews that you do are amazing for people like your Patreon is crushing like good on you. That’s
Carolina Guzik
cute. Thank you. I really enjoy it as my as my hobby even though it’s also my business, but I really like I really enjoy it. So
Dan Moyer
good. So a little bit about you is that like, obviously you’re a photographer for in Miami wedding photographer for 10 years. But before that, did you do you have a degree in marketing? Did I see that
Carolina Guzik
I do. I have a degree in marketing and mass communication and I used to work. I did work in an ad agency and I also work in hotels. So like I had a little bit of both worlds experience. Yes. Wow. Okay.
Dan Moyer
So what what made the leap from you know, marketing big world to wanting to do your own thing and have your own business and all that stuff?
Carolina Guzik
My husband says that I don’t work well we’d all my own business, which is not true, because I really love working in the art industry, but don’t look like I always complain about not having enough photos of myself growing up and my husband bought me a camera. I started to take pictures of myself then my friends were like, Oh, you have a camera? Can you take my photo? And I’m like, sure. I didn’t even know it was a business possibility. And then I remember finding out this family photographer, I don’t remember her name nothing. She was based in Chicago. This was like 15 years ago. And I’m like, she has a website. She charged money for this. This is crazy. And one thing led to another and because I have really nothing to lose, it was really like ignorance is bliss, right? Like I had nothing to lose, but I also knew nothing. I was like If I’m gonna put up a business, and I still have my job at the, you know, my regular corporate job, yeah, so I’m just gonna copy somehow this woman’s numbers like, this is what she says to charge I. Yeah, and don’t lock I started booking clients I was like, perplexed, I’m like, you want to pay me to take family photos because I’m Colombian. And in Colombia, that is not a thing. Here, I feel like in the United States is very traditional to go and get your photos at Sears or whatever, you know, like in the 80s and 90s, you know, and speak people do that in Colombia, nobody takes family photos that is unheard of. So I didn’t even know that was like a possibility.
Dan Moyer
Is that something that’s changing now? Like in? Or was that like, you know, when you were growing up, people didn’t do that. But now Now, since photography is so accessible, and all that stuff, you’ll you’ll see that man now is that still the case in Colombia
Carolina Guzik
is still very much the case. Even though there was some amazing wedding photographers, like is still family photography is something that is just like, why we’re gonna do that. So it’s like, very, it’s like a very little non market. Because I mean, I guess if you market yourself, you can, you know, get yourself out, but culturally is not something that we are used to.
Dan Moyer
Interesting. So I remember, I think when we were first talking a while ago, I think it was just, you know, you and I just chit chatting. You were saying that, you know, there wasn’t a lot of representation for Spanish and Colombian podcasts and people who sort of sounded like you and podcasts and Spanish for the photography community. Is that why I see that I can sort of make I don’t know, not the writing on the wall. But like, I can see the kind of picture coming together where you’ve got this, you know, marketing background, and you’re also seeing this huge hole of representation missing in the photography world, and you say, Hey, I’m going to start a podcast that talks about, you know, marketing and all the stuff that’s so essential, and to bring it into the photography world. Am I right on that?
Carolina Guzik
Again, don’t look I think, I looked like at the time this was years ago, we used to have like luncheons with like other photographers, it was like a group of six of us. And I remember, photographically speaking, like they were more advanced, but I consider being more advanced, right? They were having, they were booking this weddings that I could only dream off, they were working at these venues that were like, I’m like, they were like my dream venues at the time. And I was like, a little tiny baby photographer would like you know, you know, not the greatest, you know, clients and all that. But they were always picking my brain about marketing things. And they were like Karolina, how do you do this? And then one day, I’m like, what, what is going on in here? So I’m like, I need to apply all this knowledge that I have from like my degree and my experience in advertising into my own business, right? Sometimes it’s kind of hard to do things at home that you do for others kind of thing. So anyway, so one day, I’m like, I’m gonna start a podcast. And I guess I told you this many times, I didn’t even know how to start a podcast for many, many episodes. I didn’t even I wasn’t even tracking who was listening to my podcast, in my mind. I’m like, this is just a journal. Nobody’s reading this. Nobody’s listening to this. Maybe my mom, I don’t know. But when I, you know, started actually getting, you know, DMS and people were like, I listened to your podcast. I’m like, oh, people are listening to this. Yeah. So yeah. So like, a lot of my things in my business have been dumb luck, and also excitement to experiment something for fun, without really expectations. And things seem to work out.
Dan Moyer
I think we could all use a little bit of that right now of just like, like, I have friends who really want to start a podcast or really want to do this project or that project. And they’re just stuck in the details. And I love that you were like, man, I’ll just like I’ll give this a shot. Right? Well,
Carolina Guzik
I remember at the time I had, we used to meet every week with another friend of mine that she had an actually an agency. So we used to, we used to call each other accountability partners. So it was my favorite part of the week, because she will talk about her business. And I will like, give my expertise or like my point of view as an outsider. And the same thing for my business, even though she wasn’t a photographer. And I was, well, she’s in advertisement, and I was in advertising. But I still, you know, it was like, really good to have that conversation. And she was like, I want to start a podcast too. And I’m like, we should do it. And she’s the kind of person that has to be everything perfect. And I remember she was like, I’m gonna start a studio in my house. I’m like, What are you talking about a studio and I remember she went and she got like, the padding for the walls and everything. I’m like, Oh, he’s insane. Well, it’s been like six years. She has a nice padding room in her house, but she has no podcast.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, not the first step that that, you know, I would have taken but but mine was mine journey was sort of similar. I was like, I mean, I did a podcast previous to this. It’s called the puttering in a podcast that was for couples and that gave me some confidence to do this. But it really just started out as like, I’ve got some thoughts about the wedding world and thoughts about how I do things that I want to share them, and it’s gonna be kind of like a journal and we’ll just see what happens with it. So as I was sort of like getting ready for this episode, I was I was looking into, you know more about what you’re about, and you know, the content that you’ve put out and all that stuff. And I went on to your website, and I feel like, when I first started as a photographer, it was, you get into it, because like, you’re good at, like, you take pictures and somebody sees the pictures, and they’re like, Wow, you’re going to take pictures, you should do this for, you know, for a business and you’re like, Alright, maybe I’m gonna charge some money for this. I’m kinda like what you’re saying, and then you, and then you, like, put up a website, or whatever. And we all know that you can be an amazing photographer. But if you don’t market yourself and put yourself out there, nobody’s gonna see it. But there’s also, we all know many cases of like, sort of mediocre photographer, drivers who like crush their marketing, and they have tons of clients beating down their door. And there’s this one thing on your website that says, Without good marketing strategies, no matter how amazing you are at what you do, your audience won’t see your work. This means that it will be really hard to get new clients to hire you for creative services. And sadly, your business won’t be profitable. The Czech Republic is for both new and well established photographers, let’s all work together to have a more successful and profitable industry. shallowing exactly right. It’s so good. It’s so good. Tell me more about that. And sort of like, you know, this, like why you’re so passionate about marketing and why it’s like, the chosen thing that you talk about? Because, again, let me just find a finish up this thought and then I’ll let you speak is that, you know, I don’t think marketing was something that many of us thought of when we first started out. But I think so many photographers, because a lot of these newer photographers are realizing that marketing and branding are so important, right from the beginning, from people like you who are saying, no, no, photography is good, but you really have to have your business acumen, your business skills lined up as well. So tell me about that.
Carolina Guzik
I believe that there was things that you were born with, right? There was some times I talked to photographers, and I’m like, they’re really photographers down to their bones. I am not I can live without a camera. I go on vacation, I don’t even bring my camera. I don’t care. I have my cell phone guys, do. I have other photographers that are really do like, look at the light and all that. So they’re really at their core. That’s who they are. I think that at my core in my bones, I am a marketing person. Since I was little I used to do businesses when my cousins and I used to do transactions. And I used to do like, how are we going to get the word out and like, I used to, like rally for my cousins, you know, when we’re like, oh, we want to do this for vacation. I’m like, don’t worry. I’ll get this all together. So we can convince our parents like, I’ll make the self speech. And I make sure that every week I am doing something to like plant that seed in their heads. Yeah. So I think that was for me. When I was in the ad agency. I thought it was really good. Because he was like, Oh, my I was like, This is so amazing. But it was like so also very, I was just like starting out. So like I was like nobody was really like listening. I was just there to look learn, right? So anyway. So when I started my photography, business, and again, I was seeing that all these photographers that I admire, were doing so good, like photography wise, but they were coming to me like, I always felt like I was like the underdog at these launches. But then as soon as I got there, I’m like, I had the mic. They were like, please tell us how to do this. I’m like, oh, maybe this is really my passion. And I think it’s really important to give people the knowledge and show them why it is important that they market because yes, I’ve known also many photographers that there are beautiful images, and the craft is really, really good. But like, okay, so what if nobody sees how good you are? Right? Like, great, what are you going to do? Are you going to be like a starving artist, that was good. I don’t know when like in the 20s. It’s not good anymore. Nobody wants that. So. So you need to be really good at selling yourself. And I think that us photographers or artists, we have a hard time understanding that. And I think it’s also a cultural things. I think for many, many years, we associate cells with a bad thing, even though everything that we do in our lives is a transaction, whether we like it or not. Everything we do is a transaction, whether it’s financial or with time of your friends, everything you’re always selling yourself, even when you’re with your family, you’re selling yourself when you’re with your friends, you’re selling yourself. So understanding that and embracing it. I think it’s you know, really what we need to do to make a business that is profitable for us. It also like it breaks my heart when I go to Facebook and people say like, look at my website, I am not booking people and their work is amazing. And it’s like, now I’m gonna have to go and get a job that I hate. I mean, you have to do what you have to do, right? Yep, you need money, you need money, but like, there is many things that we can do before we actually have to give up in something that we love. Where do you think
Dan Moyer
that idea of marketing become Having sort of synonymous with selling and being very sleazy and like, and like not feeling good, where do you think that that comes from?
Carolina Guzik
I think that comes from like, decades ago, and not even the wedding industry, it comes from, like, people not liking that hard sell on the street, right? Exactly the pressure you need is, this is what you need to do. If not, you’re gonna lose, or, you know, if you don’t get this right now, you’re gonna miss out like a lot of FOMO. And a lot of like, pressure, like, you know, we’ll have bought a used car, you know? And it’s just like, Oh, my God, what’s happening in here? Like, if you don’t buy it right now, somebody else is gonna get it in two minutes. Really? There’s nobody else here. Who else is gonna get it in two minutes. So I think that we have been conditioned culturally about how we perceive sales.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, that’s a good point. It’s like, it’s like you’re boxed in, right. Like, I think that’s the part that like, always bothered me. Like, like, I remember one time I sold. Some I was trying to sell one of the cars I had, my sister was getting rid of her car. And I took over her car, I was trying to sell my car I just listed on like Facebook marketplace, like somewhere else. And this guy called me, he’s like, Hey, I sell cars for people’s like consignment, I take a small cut or whatever. And I was totally trusting and all this stuff. And after the whole thing, like I was just young and naive, I was maybe like, early 20s. And I just remember after like, he had sold the car, I ended up having to pay him more money than I expected. Because like, he was like, Oh, I just, you know, a buyer was interested, and I just had to give it and I just felt like, boxed in by the whole thing. And I think that that’s how a lot of photographers feel especially when you start talking about IPs and all these things like, like, like you’re boxing the client in or you’re like putting them in this high pressure situation. And and that is where that is like a trickle down effect. Or it’s like, I don’t want to do that. I don’t want to shove somebody’s you know, my thoughts down somebody’s throat. I don’t want to pressure them into booking me. But like in reality, like is the solution to that to put yourself out there and like what you believe and let people come to you? Or how do you start doing that without being salesy?
Carolina Guzik
I think there has to be it’s a mindset thing, really, at the end of the day, this mindset, you need to believe that what you are doing is impactful that what you are doing has value on it. So once you believe that talking about your brand talking about what you do becomes really easy, because you’re not technically selling, you’re just showing somebody an opportunity. Who wouldn’t want that wouldn’t want to have an opportunity, right? And then it’s up to them to take it or not your job is not to close the sale. Your job is to show the value of your offer.
Dan Moyer
I like that a lot.
Carolina Guzik
That’s it. So I think that that removes also a lot of the pressure, right? Like I am really into all the woowoo things about mindset and meditation and meditation, you know, to me, yeah. To me, yes. But you know, so like, I believe, and I was just talking about this. I remember, just recently I was talking about this actually the podcast I released today I was mentioning to the person that was on the podcast, I was saying my business grew almost double the moment that my mindset change, has my photos change? No, I can go back. I actually posted the other day on my Instagram, a wedding that I photographed eight years ago, telling them how my my style has actually not even changed the classic forever. So it is really a mindset I was booked was a booking the weddings that I have today, eight years ago. No. So yes, I have gotten better, obviously, posting and things like that, and my client journey. But it has been a mindset that what I do has a lot of value. And it’s actually a benefit for the people that choose to work with me.
Dan Moyer
I could not agree more. That is one of the things that like, you know, I’ve taken some sales training and stuff and, and some of the ones that I’ve taken do make me feel sort of icky. And I realized that there’s like a part to it, where it’s like, okay, I’m giving this person this opportunity. What let’s say it’s IPs, right, I’m giving this person an opportunity to buy Walmart, right. And this is part of the experience, they know it and I’m just helping them along this path, this journey to be able to say, Okay, here’s this option, you can book this, I’m gonna make it easy for you. We’re gonna figure it out together, we’re gonna go through and do your whole wedding album right now we’ll get it done. Surely they can go somewhere else and do it and some couples choose to do that. And I realized that there’s this point, which I think where it becomes sleazy or becomes that it feels weird, is when you start to they say, oh, you know what I think I think we’re okay. And then a lot of salesmen will push back and say, Okay, well let me it’s like the the car salesman, they’ll say, Okay, well, let me actually just go get my manager, right. And we’ll see what he has to say, right? There’s this part where it’s like, okay, if you don’t want it, I’m gonna let you go because either it’s either I didn’t express the value enough or you don’t have the money right now and you physically can’t actually do it. Right?
Carolina Guzik
Correct. And I I sell a lot in the way that I like to be sold. Hold on, I am extremely pragmatic. I don’t like pressure. I don’t like FOMO the moment that you tell me that it’s a limited thing, or that somebody else wants it, I’m like, good. It’s not for me, let somebody else have it. Like, that’s the moment that you lose me as a client. Even if I have the money, even if I want it. That’s the moment that I don’t trust you. So I don’t do that for my clients I mentioned like I present the offer. And if they take it great, sometimes I get off a discovery call. And I’m like, I bombed this. I know that I didn’t show them the value of this, absolutely know that I missed the opportunity here. I cannot go by like, hey, well, let me call me back. Because I forgot to mention this that no, you have to be on your A game at all times. But also, again, you have to believe that what you’re doing is, is worth it. Like, let’s talk about luxury market, right. Photographers are currently charging 3040 $50,000 for wedding, right? Once you get to that level, you do have to believe that there is value on that right? Can I do it myself right now? No, no, because I don’t have the ability not because I don’t have the technical aspects of a photographer, right now. My mindset, my headspace, I cannot jump to that place right now, the moment that I am allowing myself for the moment, I trust that what I’m doing is absolutely worth 50 grand is the moment that I can jump into that luxury market
Dan Moyer
easily. Pricing is such a mind game, like I remember very early on, I was charging, I was getting like, you know, low fours low for 1000s for a wedding. And this buddy of mine who’s sort of a mentor, but like, he’s been in the waiting game for a lot longer than I was. And I was booked for a date. And I referred it to him, I was very excited that I got to refer to like somebody who was, you know, doing much better than I am. His work is really amazing. He charges a lot more than me, he’s like, Well, you know, I’ll get to, I’ll get to, you know, pass this person off to you thinking they’re never going to book like them, whatever. And they ended up booking him for $8,200 on the spot. And I was like, what’s interesting is that I realized in that moment that that couple was inquiring with me had the funds to actually spend $8,000 with me, but I didn’t sell it for 4000 4000. Exactly. And I realized that that moment is is more about the mental game and the mindset than anything else.
Carolina Guzik
I have very similar experience before, when my business was like at the tipping point, you know, when you’re just like, Ah, I’m about to be there. I worked with this amazing wedding planner that was like a dream wedding planner. For me. It was dumb luck. Once again, she didn’t recommend me. She didn’t even know me like the couple somehow found me whatever the day of the wedding was amazing. She really liked the way I’d work. So she was like, hey Karolina send me your pricing because I think I have a couple that is going to be really good for you. So I sent her the pricing. And I didn’t hear back from her. And I’m like, I need to know. So like I sent her. I’m like, it’s super scary. I just remember like, I’m getting sweaty right now thinking about that, even though that happened years ago. So like I sent her an email, I’m like, Hey, I send you this information, did you get it. And she was like, love your images, love the gallery that you send to the thing, but you’re too cheap, I cannot recommend it to my clients. Even though I want to recommend you to my clients, I cannot present your pricing to my clients, they will never go for you. And it will make me look bad. Like the moment that you raise your pricing to XY and Z send me your price menu. Well, I did a couple of years later. And she referred me like Four Weddings in a month. But it was something that I read once also like, like money and mindset about sales and all that is like putting on a pair of shoes. If it’s too tight, you won’t be able to walk comfortable, right? Like you’re like, This doesn’t feel good for me. Or if it’s too big, like let’s say you like oh, I don’t feel like I can charge that much money. So I don’t feel good in that kind of like space. It’s gonna be you know, again, no comfortable. So your money mindset has to be like good shoes, they have to feel right, you have to feel good. Sometimes you outgrow them. Sometimes you stay on the same space, but you have to feel good about what you do. Another thing that is like they have, again, culturally, we’re not supposed to talk about ourselves. We’re not supposed to talk about how good we are. And there is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance. Yeah, so finding it. I think it’s also crucial because if you’re comfortable talking about yourself and you’re comfortable saying like Yeah, I’m good, I’m good at what I do, then again, the selling part becomes very easy.
Dan Moyer
Okay, so let’s talk a little bit about this idea of sort of like, you know, getting yourself out there right, because talking to a client when they’re in front of you is one thing, but getting them into the door is a whole other thing right? And there are many different ways that we can do this. You know, some people will harp on SEO some people will harp on you know, referral networks and you know, word of mouth. And there you are talking so much about Pinterest and the power of that and you’re on your Instagram stories all the time saying like, these are the people that I got in from you know, just this one post on Pinterest, you know, this is my stats from the last month and there are definitely you know, people who are talking about Pinterest a lot but you in the photography space are real really making it a place that I feel like a lot of photographers are not spending enough time. And it’s like this looks like it’s like this hidden gem. So tell me just about, you know, what attracted you to Pinterest from a marketing perspective. And we’ll start there.
Carolina Guzik
So I came to find out about Pinterest because at the time, I used to follow a lot of bloggers that were just writing about, I don’t know, blogging, marketing business, you know, and all of them start talking about Pinterest and how Pinterest was so good. And I started, you know, I’m like, Well, if this is good, I’m good. I think one of the things that has been really an asset for me is that when I think about business, or even marketing strategies, I don’t look in the wedding industry, maybe because at the time, I’m like, nobody’s doing anything here good in marketing. Nobody that I can follow. Like, I’m gonna have to do what people do in advertising, they take a look at what other industries are doing. And then they implement ideas from other industries. So I was like, Well, let me see you, you know, what I can take from these people. So I start following them. And I started posting things on Pinterest, and it was good, you know, I was like, This is great. But then Knowledge is power. Right? So I’m like, I started, you know, understanding more about the platform, and I start understanding how the platform was being used in my industry, right? Because I was using it as bloggers were using it, right. I’m like, let’s see how this works in the wedding industry. And I’m like, it’s not working good in the wedding industry. For me, like it’s working, okay. But I want to know, if I change it, if I do a spin on this, if it’s gonna actually work out, I’m like, again, I have nothing to lose. I had very little traffic to my website from Pinterest, it was very new. So I’m like, whatever, you know, I have to experiment. And I experimented. And then, you know, a couple of months later, when I track my analytics, I’m like, this is absolutely incredible. So I started talking with my lunch friends about being trans. I’m like, You need to get up. And then, you know, my local Francis are like inviting me to like, you know, Tuesdays together meetings and things like that. And I started talking a lot about Pinterest. And the more I talk, I’m like, I need to do more research about Pinterest. So I started research, you know, doing research with what other industries were doing on Pinterest, finding out what was working for them. And I’m like, how could I apply that in the wedding industry? And that’s how my Pinterest strategy start being a success. I do understand or I do see, because I have a class and I teach about Pinterest that a lot of people get really excited, right? When they see my stats, they’re like, I want this. What they seem not to understand, or they don’t want to do is the hard work. Pinterest is not an easy platform. I mean, it is really easy to manage, right? Anybody can upload a photo fantastic. But Pinterest is a platform that requires time. It’s like SEO doesn’t you put a beautiful blog post on your on your blog is not going to like reach a million people tomorrow? I mean, unless you’re extremely famous, right? It’s not going to happen. We are so conditioned for instant gratification. So people say like, oh, well, I got, you know, 20,000 followers on Instagram, how is that gonna work on Pinterest is that it’s two different things. Yes, completely two different things. There’s two different strategies. And what you need to do is you need to look at your analytics, you need to look you need to track your data, which is another thing that the majority of photographers don’t do. They don’t track data. If you don’t know your numbers, it’s impossible for you to make adjustments. If you are gonna start using Pinterest, you need to be good at tracking your data. And you need to be good at having patience. And also you need to know how the platform works. People say like, Oh, I haven’t gotten any referrals from Pinterest. I don’t get many referrals that says I found you on Pinterest per se. But I get many, many referrals that I said, I found you on Google. And that’s like the go to answer for a lot of things. Yes, my SEO is really good. But I can also see how much traffic to my website. Pinterest sends every month. And I can also see the quality traffic, which means how many pages are they’re visiting on my website for how long are they staying? What is their location? And all those three aspects much my ideal client is people are saying for over a minute and a half on my website that that is a long time. There’s people that are visiting more than two, three pages. So I’m like they’re invested in what they see. They like what they see they’re exploring. There is people that are based in the Miami Metro area, New York and LA, which those are I photographed a lot of destination weddings in Miami, a lot of people coming from New York, a lot of people coming from California. So I’m like, those are my clients. So once I understand the data from Pinterest, and from my Google Analytics, I can make an educated assumption and say Pinterest is really helping me and my doing one to one transaction meaning that they saw me on Pinterest now they booked me. I don’t know it’s impossible to sell to tell also because the the way Pinterest work is like it’s Inspirational and aspirational people who start planning their weddings on Pinterest, even before they get a ring. So let’s say for example, they find my photos, they find my venue. So like, I really liked this idea for my own wedding, they save that image. And months passed by maybe a year passed by before they’re making a decision about a wedding photographer. What I did with that initial pain was send them to my website. In my website, I give them enough information for them to be this is solid. I kind of like this, even though I’m not ready to book photographer, but I like her style. I like you know, her brand voice, what have you. Maybe I’m going to follow her on Instagram, right? So perhaps they start following me on Instagram. So a year later, when they contact me, they could be like, Hey, I found you on Google. Or they could be like, I’ve been following you on Instagram for a whole year, which is valid, but how did they find me initially? Was that Pinterest post?
Dan Moyer
Interesting. So I want to go back to what you said sort of in the beginning, which was, you know, photographers will say, Oh, it’s not working for me. It’s it is what it is? I’m assuming that’s because they just haven’t put the time and they haven’t done the consistent work of continuing to post regularly over and over again. Is that what I’m hearing?
Carolina Guzik
It could be that it could be that they’re actually not checking their analytics. So if you if you’re not getting inquiries that says like, Oh, we found you on Pinterest, they’re disregarding the platform. They’re like, Oh, isn’t working, because I’m not getting the exact word that I’m looking for, which is Pinterest. But what is the second word that you might be looking for Google? What is another word that you might be looking for online? Or
Unknown Speaker
blog blog? Exactly. So
Carolina Guzik
what I can what I want people to focus when they’re using Pinterest is their data from their Google Analytics, how many people are visiting their website, if you tell me that you have done my class, and you have done everything that I have told you about Pinterest, and that I go back, you know, a year later after you created your account, and you have been consistent with your postings and all that, and then I see that you have zero traffic, then I’ll be like, maybe isn’t working for you. Right? And I’ll be like, okay, we can argue with numbers, it is what it is. But if I go back and I see a lot of traffic, then I’d be like, then there is a problem here. Something is broken here. Because remember, Pinterest is the first point of contact and Pinterest audience is a very, very cold audience. Nobody goes on Pinterest looking for their favorite. What’s the word influencer? Nothing like that. It’s kind of like a Google search. But again, as I mentioned, is aspirational and inspirational. You go to Google immediately when you need something, right? I need something for the next month, the next couple of days, I’m gonna go to Google, it’s gonna give me the answer. Pinterest is where people go to dream, I want to have a wedding in Miami, that is going to be outdoors, that is going to be so pretty. Let me see how those venues look like. So they go to Pinterest to see all the beautiful venues in Miami. Once they find a photo, they like to like, Oh, this is exactly what I want. I’m gonna save it on my board. And then they go back to those boards to revise that information. And then again, if they click in that pain, and if you have done the work correctly, that image is going to take them to a blog post about that wedding. What’s going to have that blog post most images about God wedding, more inspiration, what’s going to happen in that in the website, if you have a website that is not converting if you have a website when you don’t have what I call breadcrumbs, and breadcrumbs is like more posts that are similar to that post. So you keep them in like that spider web content loop. Okay, what’s going to happen, what’s going to happen with your website got shut down. And you haven’t even noticed that your website is not even working? What’s gonna happen if your contact forum is not working, and you’re like, I haven’t received any inquiries? Well, you don’t even check your contact form to see if it’s working. So you can lose that traffic on your website really easily if the whole system isn’t set up. But again, we have data that tell us like 40 million couples per year, use Pinterest to plan a wedding, you won’t tell me that other 40 million couples, you’re not gonna find 510 couples.
Dan Moyer
What’s wild is that, like, when you say it that way, it makes so much sense. But I don’t feel like that many photographers are working at the same way that they work Instagram. I mean, granted, you know, there’s there’s definitely exceptions to every single case, right? You know, lots of people say, Oh, well, I bought a lot off Instagram. I’ve always felt like not that many people go to Instagram to make a transaction. It’s that it’s that sort of, you know, their friend saw a picture that that of yours and they tagged they put it in their story, and then they happen to see you and they happen to be engaged. But like it almost seems like happenstance, like it’s just sort of a like maybe right? And it has to be like like, it’s almost like word of mouth where like, you know, one of your couples posts a picture and then you go from there. But it doesn’t seem like that many people do the same thing on Pinterest, even though like you’re saying couples are going on there and creating income aeration and literally taking pictures and saving them to come back to them. So if you’re in those pictures if those pictures are you and and I’m assuming you probably have like a way you write the captions and all those things, so that way, as soon as they click on that picture, it says who it’s Bible, blah. That makes so much sense.
Carolina Guzik
And it’s also understanding the platform. The way that I write on Pinterest is completely different than the way that I write on Instagram. In Instagram. I’m extremely personable. I talk about you know, even even in my post about weddings, I talk about like, oh, so and so love the housewives. And that’s where, you know, like, I’m more like, into like, the things that I love and the things that they love on Pinterest because the audience is completely cold. I am more pragmatic. I am not writing about me loving the housewives and how so on So we’re so romantic on their wedding day. No, I’m talking about like, This venue is perfect for people that coming from out of town that want to have a garden wedding in Miami. Straight to the point what is this about garden weddings in Miami? What is this for couples that want a garden wedding in Miami? Or you know, a castle wedding in Miami and I talk about like a specific venue that looks like a castle things because people are going with that like emotional thing into Pinterest or going for like, again, aspirational. But how are they looking something aspirational? beach wedding in Miami? How does a garden wedding look in Miami because they want to see they you know, they’re just like dreaming about their wedding. And if I have all those images for them to like to kind of like, add fire to the dream to be like, This is exactly what we wanted, this is so good. Then I got them. I got them only like 5% I haven’t gotten them 100% I’m gonna go more on my website.
Dan Moyer
But they’re also going to say like, oh, who took these pictures like, like, That makes so much sense. Because like, they know that what they’re searching for. It’s not by chance, I think that’s the one thing that hangs me up about spending so much time on Instagram, is it feels like you’re putting so much out there. And it’s sort of by chance if somebody finds you or whatever, because it’s so massive. But this is very calculated. And you know, people are coming, they’re searching for what you want. It’s like, you know, it’s a mini search engine, visual search engine of you know, they are looking for this specific thing. And you can say, yeah, here, I do this one thing. Here’s a picture that shows you and I also am for hire if you want me to do this thing for you. Right? You know, so I feel like you’re already on this topic a little bit. But can you sort of run me through like, what a post would look like for for Pinterest that you would do like a little like flow of sort of what it would be.
Carolina Guzik
So for Pinterest, I focus only on vertical images. And it’s really funny because when I started doing Pinterest like the way that I should completely changes because now in my mind, I’m like I need to shoot for Pinterest. So like I should very vertical a lot more than horizontal. So I’m gonna choose a vertical photo because
Dan Moyer
that hurts my feelings a little bit.
Carolina Guzik
I love ographers. Good like, but also if you want to get published in magazines, they one vertical photos over horizontal photos.
Dan Moyer
I’m shaking a little bit like I don’t like have you ever heard this like silly thing where if God if God intended us to take vertical pictures, he would have put our eyes up and down instead of side to side.
Carolina Guzik
It makes sense that, you know, I’m not gonna argue with editors and magazines and so so you know, I took a horizontal photo. I go really heavy on in details, right? I want to make sure that I can showcase how a banyan looks like what a table looks like they add you know, the ambience of a wedding, obviously, I put romantic photos because those are the ones that people are gonna see reflected on that, right? They’re like, oh, I want to look like this couple. But then you know, I would say that I do like about 30% Romantic photos and 70% style images, like by style I’m talking about like table decor, ceremony decor, things that people can duplicate for their own wedding. You’re gonna make sure that you’re gonna do a little bit of research on keywords right? Don’t go putting the wedding of Joan and Jane Okay, who’s john and jane unless you’re photographing like Prince Harry and Megan and then those people that are gonna be looking for but don’t and Jane, they’re lovely. Nobody cares. So make sure what people care about is like the location perhaps so they get married venue X and Y is really hard in my city. Okay, what is the venue look like? Is it a castle? Is it a ballroom? Is it a garden? Is it a museum is in an aquarium? I don’t know what is that a specific keyword that many other couples are actually interested in. So those are the things that are going to put in your title that you’re going to put in your description but again, don’t do this like it was the early 90s And it’s just like a 25 you know keywords in there. No, you have to write like a human right right so go until why this venue is beautiful, and or why this style of wedding was so much fun.
Dan Moyer
Do you how regularly Are you posting on Pinterest?
Carolina Guzik
How been posting a wild?
Dan Moyer
Like, alright, so if you’re just getting started, you’re like in the hustle of it. How much are you trying? Are you saying to post
Carolina Guzik
I think that at least once a week, give me one photo a week, if you want to, you know, be an overachiever and you want to give me five a day, that will be great.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, that will be an overachiever.
Carolina Guzik
Good five, five a day. I think that will be good. You have to do this consistently for months. Yeah, this is not a week that you posted five images like well, to sit up saying nothing happened. So you have to do this for at least I would say six to seven months consistently. I don’t have to post so many images because I have 1000s of photos on my on my account. And the good thing about Pinterest is like, it’s evergreen content. And Instagram, you post a photo 45 minutes later, forget it, nobody’s gonna find it. Nobody knows where he went nothing on Pinterest. If you have good content, and you have good keywords, your photos live forever.
Dan Moyer
As we’re sitting here, I’m like your I’m gonna open up my instagram or my Pinterest account. Okay. I’m just gonna look, I’m just gonna look, I can’t show you because we’re on two different computers, but I sort of know. So there’s an impressions, I have 21,078, some plus 75%. So there’s this one picture, those two pictures that I have posted. Over seven years ago. I don’t think I’ve posted anything since. So, so I’m gonna get on this train. Because I so here’s the one thing that frustrates me about marketing for the photography world, it feels very, very passive. That’s the word I’m looking for. It feels very passive, where you pay some money to get listed somewhere on a giant, huge website, and you’re just one of 1000 people, and you just hope somebody finds you, right? This feels active, right? It feels like you’re engaging. You’re you’re saying this is this is who I want to come to me. This is the people who I want to photograph. And you can pick photographs like that and curate your own feet. Correct. Right? And say, like, this is what I do. This is me. And I’m just thinking about how I would do it. Now I’m starting to say like, Well, I’m a hyper emotional person, you know, maybe I start creating some, I don’t want to ask you about this in a second. Maybe I start creating like a board that’s just for, you know, emotional wedding photographs are so
Carolina Guzik
but also here is the most important part, because that’s a huge mistake you’re about to make. Oh, okay. Okay, so everybody in the world has been tourists, anybody could see your photos. Do you care if somebody in Australia is going to your website? No. I mean, I mean, great, fantastic. Hi, how are you? Do I care? No, because they’re not gonna be my clients. I’m not gonna get on a plane to go to Australia for a wedding. I don’t, I don’t care how much they pay me. I am not traveling for my pet peeve. I’m not doing that. So I don’t care if my traffic is coming from Australia, because that’s going to become a business. I’m going to do it local. So emotional weddings in your city. And then you have to actually look, if that’s a keyword that people is looking for. Because you might think that, Oh, somebody’s looking for this. And nobody’s got because again, remember, people are going to Pinterest for aspirational? Are they probably gonna use emotional wedding photography? Probably not. So you don’t want to get into this. It’s kind of like a diet, you don’t want to get into a diet that is gonna get you the results that you want. Frustrated, right? You’re gonna get in a in a in a system that is actually reaching out to people that you like, or that you want to work with, but also in a very smart way. What could be something similar or like? To be honest, the easiest hanging fruit is start with the venues that you love working at, because most likely the couples are getting married there are very similar to your past couples, and maybe they are very emotional couples.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, so I’m looking, I literally have a board called Emotional wedding photos. I’m just looking. But I’m looking at the top two pictures, this 120 1000 impressions in last 30 days, maybe 147 saves 13 Outbound clicks, and the title or like the caption says, Claire and Shawn’s classic Philadelphia wedding at the Union League on Broad Street, which is like perfect, which would sort of make sense that that would be because the Union League is a very well known big ballroom, the pictures I it was a horizontal picture that I cropped vertically. So like because I heard that from a friend of mine years ago, who’s a wedding planner. She said no, you have to you have to if you have a great horizontal picture you got crop a vertical just do it. And there’s another one that is it’s the bane of my existence. This picture. It’s this may be like the first year I was taking pictures, like 2010 or 2011. And I took a Euro US Morris that’s it. It’s a regional thing. Yeah, like graham crackers, Marshmallow. Everybody knows what smalls are okay, just making sure. And I put on an engagement ring more and it’s like on a hand. And it’s like, everybody eats that picture up. That’s the second most popular picture for forever. But that like those, those two things hit what you’re talking about. One is sort of inspiration. It’s a camping style, or camping themed engagement session is the is the caption. And the other one is, is the, you know, classic Philadelphia wedding at the Union League. And those two things. It doesn’t it make sense why they’re doing well, because they’re doing exactly what you’re saying.
Carolina Guzik
Correct. And now to prove your theory, what you would have to do is you have to go to your Google Analytics and see your traffic for the past 30 days and see what has been the trap you I mean, at least you at a minimum, you have 13 Because you have 13 Outbound clicks. So at a minimum, you have $13. So the goal here is to have enough images that we’re going to get a lot of traffic like I just did, on my Instagram stories, I don’t know like two days ago, I think that I show my my analytics and in the past 30 days, I had from Pinterest, 450 clicks to my website. I don’t know if that’s a lot for a lot of people. Or if that’s too little, for a lot of people. For me, it’s plenty because when I go to my Google Analytics, and I check where this traffic is coming from New York, Miami area, and California, I know that’s where my client hubs are. So again, in my mind, I checked my data, check, check, good. This is the only thing that I want from my Pinterest. Now, if I get like, I just recently book a wedding that she actually put, I found you on Pinterest, and I was like, oh my god, this is so exciting. But that happens maybe three times a year. But again, the amount of traffic that I’m getting to my website, thanks to Pinterest is 1000s a year. So for me, that’s what Pinterest is doing. For me. It’s actually connecting me with couples that are looking for aspiration or inspiration into my website, that the job of Pinterest has been done, then I have to look at my website. And people are staying on my website, or people looking at my breadcrumbs, check. It’s done. So those things are working, then the next thing is like how many inquiries I’m actually getting? Right. Okay, I get enough increase. Good, let’s say 25 inquiries a month or 30. That’s good for me. And then I look at my bookings. So let’s say that if I get 30 increase a month, and I book nobody, then Pinterest isn’t broken, my website isn’t broken, my contact form isn’t broken, then my discovery call is broken, because I got somebody interested in my services all the way until the discovery call. And that’s what I lost them. So that’s what we need to start thinking about our business when people tell me like, Oh, I’m not booking any clients. And I start like, Okay, let’s start at the very beginning. What are you doing? Problems? Exactly. So I start like, troubleshooting. Because we both like all my website isn’t working. Okay, that might be the truth. But let me see your traffic. Let me see your increase, and then we can not exactly but like with at least you know, 90% accuracy. Why are you not working and where the trouble is happening. So when people tell me about Pinterest, am I gonna get leads tends to Pinterest? Yes, you are? Are you gonna get constant leads that they found you on Pinterest? I don’t know, maybe you do. I myself as a Pinterest specialist, and somebody that loves Pinterest, I get very few that actually said that they found me on Pinterest. But once again, when I go back and look at my data, the job in my mind, the job of Pinterest is not to technically get me a contact form that says I found you on Pinterest, the job of my Pinterest is to get qualified traffic into my website. That’s it, once you understand this, you can troubleshoot and you don’t get overwhelmed with your marketing strategies.
Dan Moyer
So alright, I feel like like, there are a million other questions that I have. But I don’t want you to throw out and teach your whole entire course in this podcast, but we’re like on this, like top level and there’s so many questions I want to ask about asked me, you know, well, I want to give you the opportunity to talk about your course the art of pinning, because I feel like you know, no matter how much you know, we talk about it here, you have taken this sort of thoughtful approach and sort of laid it out of how people should you know, work through this process. You know, we can talk about how to pin and all that stuff, but I know you go into depth about setting up the account and all those kinds of things which is something that we can’t do here. So can you share a little bit about the you know, the art of pinning and you know, for anybody who’s listening that you know wants to go make this happen? This is where you do it? Sure. So
Carolina Guzik
I have a class that is break down in modules. Each module is about Max 20 minutes long, like I like to consume content in various small bites. And each module is going to walk you through a process starting with like let’s get you the account ready. So like starting at the Super most basic level, all the way to like idea pins V European’s all the way to like tracking your analytics, I have a bonus on like content creation, give you ideas on what to name your boards, things like that. I have talked about Pinterest in pretty much every single level. So I’m here talking for free, great, you want to dive a little bit deeper, I also have a podcast where I have, like, I don’t know, maybe five or six episodes about Pinterest, I have a freebie on my website, if you want to join me on Patreon I talk about there, you know, at $10 a month and now if you want to buy the class for 190 something dollars that it cost there is there. So at any point that you are there is an opportunity for you to learn about Pinterest. At the end of the day, you can learn as much as you want to. But if you don’t put it into practice, and you’re not consistent, it doesn’t matter if you even buy my class. The end of the day, that’s not what matters. You have to put on the work. And I love Pinterest is my second most traffic driven platform that I use. So I absolutely love it.
Dan Moyer
What’s the first Google Okay, so, so I Instagram.
Carolina Guzik
Let me tell you something I don’t know about Pinterest. But let me tell you something about Instagram. Once again, you need to be extremely clear on what the goal of each platform is. My Instagram. When I look at my analytics, I get a very few traffic from Instagram into my website. But that is not the goal of my Instagram. The goal of my Instagram is to be personable so I can stay in touch with my current clients. So they can refer me future clients and with new clients so they can know me. So the day of the wedding, I am not a stranger. I am not even there to book clients. Have I booked clients thanks to Instagram. Yes. Do I get followers every day? Yes. But I don’t care about that. Because my goal is very clear. My goal there is to make new friends with my couples that booked me today recently, and stay in touch with couples that I photographed six, seven years ago. If I am doing those two things by engaging on their photos, if we have the same conversations about random things like reality TV, I know that Instagram is doing its job. So I don’t get frustrated when people tell me like oh, I booked 25 Weddings thanks to Instagram. Great. I know that because I am doing something else on Instagram. Yeah, so you need to know exactly what the goal of each platform is.
Dan Moyer
I love that we sort of optimize our businesses for the things that make the most sense for us, right? Like, you know, Pinterest works really well for you. And you, you know, and that’s like sort of where you, you know, you cast a wide net. I love to talk to people randomly at rest, like the first wedding. The first anything I ever booked was literally a woman standing in front of me with her fiance. And I carried business cards with me all the time. And I was so in tune with when women had engagement rings on and I would hand out a business card and be like, Oh, if you’re engaged, do you have a photographer yet? And I would do that all the time. My worst nightmare. Right? Like, this is what I’m saying? Like, like we all have. But this is the whole point of this podcast is that we shouldn’t specialize in just one. There’s like a foundation of our marketing pyramid. And I think you know, the foundation of mine is word of mouth and really supercharging my class to tell other people about it. And that is how I use Instagram, but like, but I also have this other side of things that I need to continue to funnel people into my business. And that is something that I need to spend more time on, which is Pinterest and things like that, I think I think that is what you know, so many photographers need to do is, is you can get hyper specialized on one but also cast this wide net,
Carolina Guzik
I don’t want to put all my eggs in one in one basket. So like I like to have three, three for me seems like completely doable, right? So I have SEO, which is my website, my blog posts all that for me. It’s very important because again, I want to do things that are evergreen things that are gonna live forever. I already did all the hard work for Pinterest. So I can relax here and don’t pose for three, four months because I have I don’t know how many pins working for me, right? I already do the heavy lifting. Now the second thing again, Pinterest. And the third thing is Instagram. Am I doing tick tock? No, I don’t enjoy it. I don’t care, you can tell me that the best people are on tick tock. But that’s not for me because I don’t enjoy it. So I’m never going to do it. But I’m also not going to just be like I’m gonna focus only on Pinterest and forget about everything else. Because what happens if Pinterest disappears, right? I want to have at least two other things that hold me together. And that will be for me, my SEO and my Instagram. So, you know, if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, let me you know, let me find out. Again, there is so many free content that you can consume before you make a decision. But what I think I want you to understand is that this is not going to be an easy fix to a broken problem if you don’t have a good website. So I’m going to work out for you because you do need a website to help I mean, you don’t need a website, you need a URL. Could you send them to Instagram? You? Could you losing people that way. And I explained all this in my class why, but I’m gonna tell you here the reason why. Let’s say that you have a beautiful photo, right that I’m looking for a Philadelphia photographer and I find your photo, the one that you’re talking about, you know, that is so beautiful. I click on it, and you send me to your profile on Instagram. I don’t know where that photo is, especially if you took it seven years ago, that photo like it’s gonna take me hours to find it. Nobody has hours to find anything. The second thing that is gonna happen is like now I’m on Instagram and Instagram has done an amazing job at it don’t know messed up our brains because now I see that I have likes. I see that maybe I have a couple of DMS. So I completely forgot about you, Danielle. Bye. It was nice meeting you nom on somebody’s DMS talking about something.
Dan Moyer
So real as you’re scrolling for forever. Yes.
Carolina Guzik
So what do you need as you send them to website because you can control the experience in your website? Yep. So yeah, that’s another tip.
Dan Moyer
Goodness. Okay. So you mentioned a little bit of where people can find you but you didn’t mention your podcast name. your website’s like had hit your Patreon up lay all those things out right now so we can so we can hear about where
Carolina Guzik
they are super easy. Go to the talk republic.com that is t OG Republic that comm you can listen to all the podcast episodes there, there is a little button that says education. If you click that it was gonna link you to my patreon to my website’s reviews to my Pinterest class to I don’t know what else I have in there. I have coaching if you want to. So yes, the most important address will be the talk Republic.
Dan Moyer
So on a personal note, I’m very thankful that you decided take some time from your busy Rockstar schedule. And come on the podcast, which is little old me. No, but seriously, you have been somebody who, especially when I was starting out, I remember having many conversations with you as things were going on and messaging back and forth. You’ve been such a cheerleader for me, but also just really for so many people and just putting out so much awesome content for an area that is murky and confusing for a lot of us and you do such a great job of, of really simplifying it and helping us all do a better job of elevating our industry. So thanks.
Carolina Guzik
Oh, thank you, Daniel, thank you for having me. I love our combos and I’m so happy to see that you have your own podcast. I love to see other people succeed. And again, there is space for all of us in here. So, you know, I really appreciate all you do. And I was really excited about this. Waiting for bombs.
Dan Moyer
You get to be on the opposite side of the microphone. It’s very fun to be on other podcasts too. So you get to do that. But it
Carolina Guzik
is fun. It is fun. Yeah. How’s your Spanish by the way? That Duolingo
Dan Moyer
I’m working day today was day 45 It’s like it’s not quite making the jump from like brain to mouth yet but I completely
Carolina Guzik
understand because I’m learning Swedish. Yes. So I mean, yes, I know how to say a lady loves a sandwich. That’s amazing. I’ve noticed and this has nothing to do that you do get vocabulary. So yeah, continue with your Duolingo experience.
Dan Moyer
Thanks Carolina. I appreciate it. You’re awesome. I appreciate that you are here today.
Carolina Guzik
Awesome. Thanks so much for having me.
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