An incredible amount of challenge exists for photographers and business owners when it comes to managing their mental health. In this episode I am continuing the series on photographers and mental health, speaking with fellow creatives regarding the correlation between our mental health and our businesses. Today’s guest is Davina Palik, a certified breathwork facilitator, trauma-informed coach, photographer, and current master’s student. Davina is sharing her story of moving her family to Costa Rica and creating a life of healing.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!
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REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES:
Catching up with Davina (00:03:17)
Invited to tell a new story (00:12:36)
Transitioning life to Costa Rica (00:16:13)
Living in a blue zone community (00:29:08)
Dancing with life (00:37:52)
Acting on the small thought (00:47:14)
Cultivating self-awareness (00:50:36)
Witnessing emotions from the seat of the observer (00:56:37)
Posting on Instagram as a spiritual practice (1:08:00)
The spiritual practices that Davina has kept (1:20:20)
Connect with Davina (1:30:17)
CONNECT WITH DAVINA PALIK
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Michael A. Singer: The Surrender Experiment
Bessel van der Kolk M.D.: The Body Keeps The Score
Schlitz, Vieten, Amorok: Living Deeply
Mark Manson: The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F*ck
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: WWW.DANIELMOYERPHOTOGRAPHY.COM
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
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Review the Transcript:
Dan Moyer
Hey friends, I’m Dan Moyer and welcome to the focus photographers podcast where photographers gather. This podcast series photographers and mental health is real talk. Burnout, stress and anxiety are more of a conversation now than they ever have been before. And it’s time we talk about them in the open, because we are all going through something despite how much many of us want to believe we’re going through something alone in our struggles. It’s different for all of us though, we’re all going through something these conversations in these podcast episodes are the stories of people dealing with some real stuff in their lives. And I want to make note that in this particular episode, there would be a trigger warning around sexual abuse. Despite this serious topic, I will always approach it with a light hearted curiosity, spontaneity and levity. And my greatest hope is that these conversations will give you some hope, lift you up and encourage you. These podcast episodes, though, are not a substitute for therapy. There is no substitute for talking to someone whose only job it is, is to listen to you with an open heart and an open mind and help get you through whatever you are going through. Do you know how I knew I needed some help? When I just couldn’t shake my negative thoughts. I started to feel a cloud regularly and without warning, and it would just take me down this negative thought spiral therapy has done wonders for me over the past two years and it might do some good too. If you needed someone to talk to, you can call or text 988 in the United States. Okay, let’s get to the show. My guest today is a certified breathwork facilitator trauma informed coach photographer. She’s currently working on her master’s degree in consciousness, spirituality and transpersonal psychology. She believes in sharing her own healing journey, which she does a lot of in this podcast episode, which has included journaling breathwork, sacred sexuality and plant medicine to empower others to heal themselves and cultivate self love. She is dedicated to creating safe spaces for others in which they can heal and thrive. She lives in Samaria, Costa Rica with her husband and two children, where they lead breathwork ceremonies and retreats with a constantly expanding toolbox and deep commitment to her work. She seeks to inspire others as they live their most authentic lives. On a personal note, this might be one of the most powerful podcast episodes I’ve recorded. It’s a long one but I know you’ll be moved by it just like I am. Please welcome my friend Davina pallet
Dan Moyer
It is lovely to see you and I’m glad you’re here talking with me,
Davina Palik
mean to you? Thank you for having me, even though we were already been talking for like 20 minutes, and I feel like I’m already having a good time.
Dan Moyer
It’s a great time. I’m very excited because I was as we were talking about sort of catching up and all that there’s a lot of nostalgia I have around you and Daniel is like I started my business and then I stumbled upon the two of you and was I was always stalking your blog and I was I bought the web shop which was like how to edit and like watch that whole thing. And and then I came up to the your actual in person workshop, I think it was 2013. And that was just such a blast and I met so many wonderful people there. And And now your life is totally different here in different country. You are moving back into the photographer space. I love the you know, sort of female empowerment portraits that I’ve seen you’ve been doing and family portraits and stuff so so before we get into all that, how are you?
Davina Palik
Oh, my. I’m good. Good. Good. Yeah. It’s funny. You mentioned like nostalgia, because that’s kind of been like my word today. Oh, yeah, I was just in the ice bath less than an hour ago. And I needed a good cry. And I felt it too. I was telling Daniel, I’m like, I’m wearing mascara, but I need to cry. Let it out. I don’t wear mascara very often around here. So. But yeah, I did. And Max is turning nine tomorrow. Well, that’s bringing up a lot of nostalgia. And I’ve been going through old photos of him and just like sobbing looking at these old photos of my little baby. And it’s just an oral life. You know, you mentioned that we’ve had a big life transition over the last couple of years. And yeah, we have in every every way pretty much except for our little family unit staying strong. Pretty much everything else has changed. And I think it happened so quickly that I didn’t really always have a chance to be with what was coming up there was like no time to maybe feel in some way. So now it’s almost like I’m retro actively having emotions about you know, different steps of the process things i things I miss things I need to mourn. Yeah, there’s a lot of points coming up right now.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, in 2000 I’m pretty sure it was 2013 Maybe 2014 was Feb January, February, maybe was 2015 That’s not gonna matter. Anyway, it was back then. I remember I think the workshop was like the first, like significant amount of time that you would spent away from Max and I remember like, you know, we all went out the last night and I think you guys were like Nope, we’re going home and and there was this I think Daniel Amelie posted something on Instagram where he was like, you know, you like snuggling Max, like I think you guys are taking a bath or something. And it was just like this sweet little moment of like, Oh, I missed this and then the next thing he knows, like, then because you guys had Grace barrel at that point, and then Grace bow sort of morphed into the image salon and then and then you guys are doing that and then the pandemic happened. And and you guys went to Costa Rica for some sort of plant medicine and, and some to work through some things. And then it seemed like it went from there was also this really big, beautiful house that you guys had made right by a river. And I remember seeing that. And I remember hearing something about that sort of being like a dream house. And then you went from that, you know, down to Costa Rica and then came back sold that house and then moved down to Costa Rica permanently. Yeah, that’s a lot in like a very short period of time talking about time just sort of flying through things, right.
Davina Palik
Yes, yeah. That was a good summary. That’s, that’s definitely
Dan Moyer
read that I know all that. It’s just Instagram and a weird photographic memory.
Davina Palik
Yeah, I mean, that’s the world we live in today, too, right? Yeah.
Dan Moyer
So what’s it like in these last couple years, right? You guys seemed like, in those like 2013 to 2016 2017. You were traveling the world. You were taking Max with you. And and you were winning all the fearless awards, and like, obviously making good money and all this stuff. And you had lots of things figured out in your teaching workshops. And then at some point, you say, this isn’t this doesn’t feel right, or we want to move on from this. What was that transition? Like? Was there was it a conscious like, this isn’t right for us anymore? Or just take me through that?
Davina Palik
Yeah. So I have so many fond memories from that chapter of our lives. And that’s really how I see it, it was it was a chapter a big, beautiful, partially ego driven chapter of our lives. And, you know, I look back very fondly, like it felt really good to be a creative who was well paid, well recognized, you know, that’s a good feeling. And as much as I want to be a way of telling that story would be that we were all ego and push, push, push, and all of this, but I don’t feel like that that’s not the story. I think the story from you know, our point of view is that we had a great time. And we were in flow, and we manifested accidentally, I think a lot of the things we wanted, because we were so in a way cocky, you know, we’re just like, This is what I want, you know, and why not? And that’s one of the things you know, Daniel and I have been together for 16 years now. And it’s one of the things I loved about him right from the beginning was how, like, confident he was. And he was like, why not? Why can’t we have this? And why can’t we do that? And that’s kind of how we lived our, our business and lived our lives at that point. And in a way today as well. So yeah, we traveled the world. And it was amazing. We just kept putting it out there that we want, you know, to go to different destinations. And we probably did over 30 countries, you know, for weddings, or workshops or conferences, and I would like pick a destination and then like, it would, it would come in, you know, it was it was amazing. I’d be like, I want to go to India. And then eventually we got a workshop there. And I’d be like, yeah, there’s still a couple of unfulfilled ones. I will say like, we never shot a wedding in Iceland, which I always wanted to do at this point. It’s been kind of overdone. I know. But back in the day, it was, you know, a little less common. And I love Iceland. And we never shot a wedding in India that we did get to visit. But in general, we just, you know, got a lot of what we wanted, or what we were setting out to do. And yeah, we did get to bring Max along for the first couple of years. He did 10 countries by the time he was one. Sharing that with him was really exciting. And people told me before I had Max, like, oh, wait till you have kids, you will be able to do this anymore. And like, you want to motivate me to do something told me to do it. So that was you know, we got to not that it’s important, but we got to prove people wrong. But more importantly, we got to show people what was possible. And I think, you know, I got a lot of people writing me and asking for advice about traveling with their little with babies or with little kids. And I think we got to kind of show people that it was possible, which felt really nice as well. traveling with him in the early years, I think shaped him in a lot of ways. So yeah, that was amazing. And then Charlie came along and she was a happy little surprise. And yeah, she was actually conceived in Costa Rica is interesting. Yeah. Not at a wedding. But around a wedding. We came to Costa Rica for a wedding. And we brought home, Charlie by accident. Yeah, it was. So she traveled as well, but it was a little harder. You know, it got harder and they more complicated with two kids and we’d have a big entourage if they would travel with us. My parents would come and so you know, we’d often weren’t actually profiting that much off of weddings anymore because we have so we had so many overhead expenses with traveling which was a choice and we we embraced it but Uh, yeah, I can’t say that, like, at one point, like anything broke or we broke or anything like that that’s again, not the story. It was more of that we just realized that that chapter kind of had was closing. Yeah. So that was in 2019. Little did we know that a year later, you know, it would have been forced closed if we hadn’t close it ourselves. So yeah, we just kind of wound down a little bit taking less and less weddings, because in the meantime, you know, the image salon had been picking up a lot getting busier and busier. And it was a lot to manage. And, yeah, we just didn’t feel like we could give as much of ourselves to weddings anymore. And you might remember that Daniel and I were pretty like hardcore about the way we shot weddings, it was like, We gave it our all, like, we were in it to give people the best service, the best experience, we’re very ambitious in what we wanted to accomplish with every wedding, kind of go big or go home, you know, literally in Nike. So
Dan Moyer
it goes by big quite a lot. Yeah, we did.
Davina Palik
And I and I, I loved that though, I loved being able to, you know, get paid enough that we could give that much of ourselves and have the approach that we had, you know, I I enjoyed doing weddings, because of the approach that we had, which was, you know, to really get to know the couples to understand their story, there was almost like a psychology to the experience, you know, that I wanted to understand what was important to them, I wanted to get to know them their quirks and kind of pick up on that through the photographs as well. So it was a really like, deep process, you know, you you kind of couldn’t really hire us for your wedding and like, not get to know us or get to know you, you know, it was it was very intimate in a way.
Dan Moyer
Yeah. So as you guys are, you know, in this chapter 2019 image salon is like really pumped up. And, and you’re winding down the wedding business. And then obviously 2020 comes along and is does it feel like you’re sort of on a high at this point in life? Do things like still feel like really awesome or like, what what was the decision to like, go to Costa Rica and and then that led to selling the house? And like all that stuff? Because there’s a lot in there. There is you have a big home in Montreal, and where your family’s that your parents and everything and your sister was there?
Davina Palik
Yes, yeah, my parents lived down the street. We had this house that we absolutely loved. There’s a big piece of the puzzle that people don’t know about, which I’m actually not sure if Daniel would be comfortable with me sharing. So I will say it and then we’ll see if we need to remove it. Yeah. But basically, we were about to sell image salon. And so we were had been going through the process for months by I guess, march 2020. We were weeks away from actually signing the final paperwork. We’re really in the last stages. Yeah. And then the pandemic hit. So everything fell through. Yep. It was a really like, devastating loss. Because it was, it was Major, it was so big, like bigger than I would have ever imagined. And you know, would have changed our lives in so many ways. Ironically, our lives still changed completely. Yeah. But yeah, so it was basically this very big deal. That didn’t work out because of the pandemic. And we had to, or we were invited, I guess, to look at things differently in our lives and to reprioritize. And I think it just, it could have gone a number of different ways. But we kind of just anchored deeper into the practices that, you know, made us feel. Okay.
Dan Moyer
I want to go back to that just a second, right? Because you corrected yourself, you’re like we had to know we were invited to and it’s like we do tell ourselves one story a lot. And it’s that I’m the victim, I’m this, I’m whatever. And that’s not easy to do, though to be like, we’re in the moment, were you? Were you able to say, oh, let’s let’s take a deep breath. And let’s look at this, or is that retro actively looking and saying no, this was a gift. Now the things are better? Do you know I’m saying?
Davina Palik
Yes. And it’s a very good question. And I’m glad you picked up on that. Because it is a very big distinction. I think at the time, it felt like why is this happening to us? Yeah, but very briefly, so I don’t feel like that feeling lasted too long. We were some of those people who had you know, the privilege of having a really beautiful pandemic time. It’s actually some of my fondest memories of our life as a family was being like cooped up with the kids at home. And you know, we listened to a lot of concerts on on YouTube with the kids and like music filled our house and the kids would like put on performances and like those are my memories of the pandemic as a result. So I know that we weren’t living in like the why me? You know, why did this happen to us? I think that we quickly were able to recognize, like, listen, it wasn’t meant to be. And we can go through the options a million times in our head and be like, Oh, if only had been a couple of weeks earlier or anything like that, but ultimately, like, we are safe, our family is safe, we are together, everything’s okay. And that’s kind of what we anchored into. And I think practices like meditation and yoga were like, became really big in our lives at that time, as a result of needing to, you know, continue to connect to that feeling that, that were okay.
Dan Moyer
It seems like, you know, as you as you move down to Costa Rica think you went down there, just just to visit for a little bit, like you were just saying, let’s get out of Montreal, and we’ll just go down and spend some time down there. It’s warm, and whatever, I think you rented a house or something while you’re down there. But that there’s a certain point at which you said like, Okay, this needs to be where we live full time. And then, and then obviously, I know, there’s like some things coming up about, you know, both of you sort of having like healing journeys and, and moving into the space of wanting to be very helpful to other people. And so I wanted to explore that too. And that like sort of innate desire, I think in a lot of us to just be helpful to our our fellow people. But before we get to that, I want to know about this change that happened, when pandemics going on, and you go back to Montreal and you say, we want to make our full time lives down there. Because it’s, that’s another big change. And it’s, it’s got to be a massively different lifestyle down, there’s got to be more simple. And I think I mentioned this when we were talking pre show, but when you first moved down there, there was a thing, an Instagram story you put up about that it was Halloween. And you were, you couldn’t just go out and buy a Halloween costume for your kids, you’ve had to make one which is this also this beautiful experience. So you go from sort of like this bigger lifestyle of like being CEOs of companies and all this stuff to seems like a much more streamlined, simplified life. And I think so many people are looking to be like, oh, I want to get to this six figures life, I want the big house, I want this and I want the stuff. And I think a lot of people are trying to make leaps to this upper line of like this is I only had this and six figures seems to be the marketing term in the wedding photography world. And it’s like you get there. But that’s not everything. And is that is that what this sort of felt like to you? Am I on point with that? Or tell me your story about that?
Davina Palik
Oh, there’s so much to say, Okay, I think the best way to go about explaining all that is kind of to continue the trajectory of our lives at that point. So basically, after the pandemic, it was actually just before the pandemic, Daniel and I both felt the call to go and sit with Ayahuasca, and which is a very intense thing to go through. And I had no experience with plant medicine. Yeah, at the time. So that’s a really big one to start with. It’s not really entry level. It’s pretty much like, all in, yeah. But I felt really strongly that I had a lot of stuff that I needed to deal with. And like, I don’t think I Wasco or plant medicine is for everyone. But it was calling me and I was terrified of it. And the more scared I was of it, the more I felt like I needed to do it. Which is so scary. Whenever that happens to me now. I’m like, No, I don’t want to do that scares me. I feel that. Yeah. But you know, anyway, so I, we did that. So we signed up just before the pandemic hit. And then we were the second group when they reopened in November of 2020. Like nobody was traveling yet. It was very, like scary to even travel. But we went came down here to do that. It was, I mean, I don’t even know how to describe it. We’ve got our like Daniels podcasts to explain that experience. But basically, a lot of my childhood traumas came up, like the last little bits that still needed to be looked at is what it feels like, it feels like I tied up some loose ends. But at the same time came back and was so confused, like I was really lacking in support for integration, which is something that I really believe, I believe it’s coming. And I believe people are starting to recognize that more as more and more plant medicine, you know, becomes mainstream, and also how it’s being used in clinical settings, etc. I think that we understand that integration is important, but it was really lacking for me I really could have used support at that time.
Dan Moyer
What do you mean by integration? Can we define that? Um,
Davina Palik
yeah. So, you know, you go you have this and it could be with anything, you know, you could go on a yoga retreat or a silent retreat or anything like that, or have this incredible mystical experience out of nowhere, because you’re just looking at nature, and all of a sudden you realize, like, Oh, my God, we’re all one and I’m not separate from this at all. Yeah. And then you come back and you’re like, what was that? And so you know, the rest would leave you to integrating the experience. So how does that How do you now move forward in life and
Dan Moyer
not just go back to like the norm not
Davina Palik
just go back. Okay, how do your habits change? You know, how does your internal landscape change out of the way you show up in the world change, and I think I came back and I expected to be like a completely different person, like, Okay, I’m healed now, like, now I only operate from a place of love and light, you know, which is bullshit, you know, that’s not how it works, we’re here to be human. And some of that is going to be really ugly. And that’s just inevitable. And that’s actually part of the experience. So I just didn’t know what to make of everything I had experienced everything I had seen. And so I really struggled. And I have, you know, kind of a lifelong history of depression, I’ve come in and out of the deep darkness is the way that I look at it, you know, that’s really what it’s felt like just this like sinking into this dark pit, where I oftentimes haven’t really known how to come out of it. And that is part of why I went to Ayahuasca because I didn’t want to, you know, do that anymore. I didn’t want to live with that anymore. And I WASC has been shown to help people with that. So yeah, I came back was really struggling. But as we left Costa Rica, even when we are like, our plane was taking off, we looked at each other, and were like, We need to come back. And we need to bring the kids. And I think like, my intuition was really strong. At that point. I think plant medicine, you know, connects you to your intuition as well. And we’re very open. And so I felt like the voice of intuition was really hard to ignore at that point. And I don’t think I think it’s been hard to ignore since to be honest,
Dan Moyer
yeah, if we can pause right there for because I think this integration thing is like, it’s huge, like, even further than, like, Okay, I’m having this. I’m doing some self work. And I’m trying to, you know, find ways to better myself. And then especially when you go away to something and come back, like, even even just with, specifically with photographers, right, you go to this conference, and you get all this inspiration and motivation, you’re ready to come back and hit the ground and change your whole business. And then you come back, and it’s like, oh, I can only do like, 1% of this tiny little thing. Before we continue what was like necessary for you to to change the day to day? Was it just waking up? 10 minutes earlier? Was it getting in the, you know, cold plunge was a little bit of meditation every day? Like, how did you actually start to make the change? And do the thing that you want to, you know, put pen to paper and all that?
Davina Palik
I’m not sure. There’s no very obvious answer. Actually, I think what came to me was, awareness, I think was the biggest change. And I think what I try to encourage people I work with as well is just just being aware of what’s going on what you’re telling yourself in your head, where you have resistance, you know, where you’re hesitating to stepping into an opportunity, because you might feel fear, like there’s all of these clues that come up in the body, how you feel in your body, that’s such a big one. And just being aware of all of that you don’t even need to do that much. You just need to pay attention. And I think that’s the biggest one, I think I came back like I would from a conference being like here, my 20 pages of notes, I need to buy all of these different software’s I need to take all these workshops. I need to get better at this, that and the other all the tech note. Yeah, all the equipment that you now need to buy, you know, we’ve all been there. We’ve all come back from conferences, I needed to buy some kind of new light or whatever. Why did I buy
Dan Moyer
this $500 light that I’m not using it just set my bar? Yeah, I know that way.
Davina Palik
Yeah. And it’s very, you know, it’s funny, because it is the same when you go on retreat or something, you know, you come back and you have this idea of like who you’re supposed to be now. But I mean, ultimately, we’re not, shouldn’t be trying to be anybody but just getting closer. I know, it’s gonna sound super cliche and kind of cheesy, but like, just closer to like ourselves, or more authentic selves, or more capital S, you know, connected selves. And so, yeah, I think I was just so ambitious when I came back in terms of like, my expectations of who I was now supposed to be and what that was now supposed to look like. So every time I lost patience with the kids, instead of just being like, okay, you know, like, we can do better and it was like, Ah, you just came back from Ayahuasca you’re supposed to be a saint. Now, what’s wrong with you? Which is so much worse, because on top of doing the thing that you feel like you’re not supposed to be doing, you’re beating yourself up about it.
Dan Moyer
That negative thought cycle is tricky, right? Where it’s like, I’m upset and then you get upset about the you’re upset, and then you get upset that you can’t control the fact that you’re upset about being upset.
Davina Palik
Yeah. And round and round. We go, hey, yeah.
Dan Moyer
Oh, goodness, gracious. Okay. So you’re on the plane back and you’re saying, Okay, we need to come back with the kids than what
Davina Palik
then you know, it was just, we came back we put our house up on Airbnb, which was really hard to do, because it was like, it’s your home. Yeah, you built it. We built it. We loved it. I was so attached I am if I’m being honest, still very attached to that house. I’m working on it working through that. Yeah. And yeah, I just, I think I asked her helped to release some of my attachments. To recognize, like, here’s an opportunity for me to go to Costa Rica for us to go to Costa Rica for three months. And, you know, not just breakeven, but possibly even like make money depending on how much we rent the house for like, this is a great opportunity. And the only thing standing in my way is my need to not have anyone in my house, that was one of those things that I think that was part of the the ego letting go a little bit, you know, I don’t like to overuse the term ego. Because I think it’s misunderstood in a lot of ways. But the attachment, that feeling of like, the house is part of my identity, like, god forbid somebody come in, and like, whatever. so low that was like one of the first steps was just allowing ourselves to let go of it enough to rent it, and to come and just experience this place. And the very first place that we came was Samara, which is the town that we now live in. And there was just a really strong feeling when we came here that it was like, a special special place, we made friends within like a week of being here. And I, you know, connections that I was like, these people will help me grow. And I feel like I belong here. And you know, we’ve traveled a ton. I’ve been to, like 50 countries in my life, but I have never once felt like, oh, I want to move to this place. This was the only place so people sometimes ask us, Why did you choose Costa Rica, we didn’t choose Costa Rica, we came to Costa Rica, and fell in love with this town. And it just kind of like adopted us, you know. And it became really clear that we were meant to be here. And I don’t really know how to explain that. I’m saying it’s like making me emotional a little bit. Because as much as I miss our old life, and I miss our old house a lot. I missed that chapter of our lives. I also know like, it almost feels like it was out of our control to be here. It was like, I don’t want to overuse all these cliches, nope. terms, but it’s like we were just meant to be here. It was like so clear that this is where where we belonged. So when we came back, we had to kind of face that and almost test ourselves. Like, how serious are we? So we said we would list the house, but we had criteria. Like it had to be this amount, which I thought was ridiculous. It was double what we paid to build the house five years earlier, you know, but it was after the pandemic, or during the pandemic, everyone wanted to leave cities. So yeah, property value by Lake, you know, went was really high. So we’re like, listen, let’s see what we can get. I really wanted a family because I wanted the family to come in and continue to like, I know, it sounds ridiculous, but like, given the house memories, you know, we wanted that energy of like family to stay to continue. And I wanted it to be very quick, because I didn’t want people coming in and out of the house, you know, visiting all summer, and I wanted three more months to live in that house. And I wanted us to leave the house and move straight to Costa Rica. Like without having to rent a place in the meantime, have one last summer there. And within a weekend, we got everything. It was just like that they even offered over asking. They wrote a letter, it was a family, they loved the house. They were like we want to continue our family memories here. You know, the memories that you’ve started and you know, I’m gonna cry. It was just like, undeniably, like, Here you go. Now what are you going to do? You know, like you said, you were going to do it if you sold the house. So go for it. So Daniel, I came here back to Samara for three days. In August of I don’t remember anymore two years ago. 2021. Something like that. Yeah. And we looked for land. And you know, it was a lot of misses. We tried to buy a house that we thought we could renovate but it kind of fell through and we saw this lot during the three days that we’re here where our house is now and like it was that same very strong, full body reaction. Like I arrived. There was a monkey sleeping in a tree. I just started sobbing. My whole body was vibrating. I had chills. It was like, Yeah, this is it. This is it. It was like, again, it felt like the land chose us. It was like, this is where you’re meant to be.
Dan Moyer
I mean, if you do any do you know what Blue Zones are? We were heard of this term before? Yeah, I
Davina Palik
live in one.
Dan Moyer
Yes, you do. That’s one of the things I think is magical about Costa Rica is I’ve never been there before. But I like it when you read about it. And when you read about the people who live there like the Nicoya ins are in the people who live the longest in in the entire world right there. Their lifestyle, obviously the way they eat and you know that they’re connected, they walk along and stuff, but they have what is it pura vida? Is that the term? Yeah, it’s like it’s like they’re connected to something bigger they have like a purpose. Right like each day they wake up with a purpose and that’s that’s part of it but I also love this like idea. We look in Japan right they have the same similar concept iki guy which is like you know, a purpose of or like a daily purpose, but across all the Blue Zones, there’s this really important part of community, right like, like That’s when you ask them, like, you know, what makes you live so long, what makes you so happy community is a huge part of it. And if you live in a place where other people are, like, they all believe the same thing that we’re there to help each other, and we’re there to, you know, be part of this community of humans or earthlings or whatever you want to call it. Like, that’s got to be a beautiful place to live, and to also be a strong reason why you’re being pulled in those directions where, you know, if there’s a vibration to life, you’ve got to imagine that if you’re in sync with that vibration, then when you when you move to a place like that, that’s operating on a different vibration, you’ve got to be able to feel that. And I feel like that’s got to be something of what you went through when you go to some of these places that it’s just like, even on like a small level where say, you go to a retreat, right, like, there’s a yearly men’s retreat that I go to, it’s like, there’s something totally amazing about being around 350 guys who are all trying to be a better version of themselves, right? Like, you go to this, it’s like a big camp, and you go there, it’s like, you can feel a difference in the air and vibration, whatever you want to call it. But that’s got to be part of like, the pole that you felt or the vibration that you felt when you’re going to this place is like, Oh, my goodness, this is it.
Davina Palik
Absolutely. Yeah, that’s 100%. Correct. And there’s kind of two ways that I see community here. Because there’s the community of people who have been drawn to Samara and who have kind of like ended up here. And I love like, we’re constantly meeting new families who have just moved and you know, that’s us two years ago Are you know, and it really is just so special, because there’s people from all over the world who have ended up here. And there’s also, you know, the local community that people who are have been living here for generations, the Costa Ricans, and the way that they’ve also embraced us and the way that we’ve learned to do things their way and in a lot of ways, ya know, that that Pura Vida, it’s like, I feel like, it’s so interesting, because it’s like, you think you understand it when you move here, but then it kind of changes. It’s almost like my relationship with what that means changes over time as well. Like, sometimes I’m kind of frustrated at Pura Vida, because it’s like, Ah, why does my car keep breaking down? And why has it taken you four days to respond to my simple question, and why did you say you were going to show up and you’re not showing up. But so there’s moments where like, I get frustrated with that concept of just going with the flow and of living life from this, like, very different way than what we’re used to in North America. But at the same time, there’s so much to learn from it that’s slowing down. And Daniel likes to say, like, every time we try to rush something here, we get kind of our asses kicked, because it’s like, you think you can rush things and push things along. That’s not how things work here, you know. And there are so many things, you know, whether it’s weather related, or animal related, or human, or whatever, there’s just, yeah, and lately, we’re having a really delayed rainy season, it’s like, we’re like a month overdue for rain. And just everyone’s extra slow, because it’s so hot, and you just feel that he in the air and people are getting sick, there’s a stomach bug going around. And it’s just so it’s like, you know, there’s this kind of palpable way that things have slowed down. And I think that we just operate on such a synchronized level here. You know, I feel like when we lived, we stayed in town for a while, right now we’re out where we built our houses up on the mountain. So we’re kind of away from town a bit. But when we lived in town, I would bike around town, and I felt like I could tell, like, I could feel my own emotions mirrored. And everybody I crossed, it was like, saying hello to people, like we recognize or that you know, personally small town. And I could tell like, oh, everyone’s like, in a somber introspective mood today, or in a like, don’t mess with me mood today, or everyone’s in a really good mood today. And everyone’s feeling really positive, it was almost like I could feel that we operate kind of in a synchronized way, which is really interesting. Just, that’s why we moved here. We didn’t know it at the time, but we moved here for community. I know that now. It’s very, very clear. And I think we do we have a part to play in the community here, you know, with just with our presence here, but also with, you know, the, our various new offerings and things like that. I think that I just, I don’t need to know exactly what it looks like. I think like, that’s the biggest difference now is like, there’s so many things that have happened to me to us, or for us, that have unfolded in a way I could have never, ever predicted ever. But the more I trust that we’re going somewhere or that you know, we’re doing what we need to do it just I get, I get shown that like, it’s okay, I am on the right path. I am doing what I’m supposed to do, and I don’t need to know exactly what it looks like. And I think that before, when we’re coming from a more ego driven place and wanting to succeed, it looked a certain way Right, it did look like winning awards, it looked like getting paid a lot of money look like exotic destinations. These markers for success, were very specific, whereas now, they change constantly. And I feel like I’ve been humbled by life. In that, you know, I am going back to photography. Now, in a more humble way, I’m charging way less, I’m doing smaller portrait sessions, smaller family sessions, I don’t need to be traveling to exotic destinations or doing all these things while I live in an exotic destination. So that helps. Truth, you know, it’s just different, I’m happy to serve, I’m happy to show up for people and it’s, it’s coming from a different place, you know, that it’s not like, I still have the same drive to create beautiful images and to be good at what I do. But it’s just different. You know, there’s, I don’t need to prove anything to anyone. And this is gonna sound like a silly example. But I was putting together a portfolio for my website. And it’s like, so I was like, I can do a square square crop. Why not? I know that sounds ridiculous. Rules, you know, I’ve
Dan Moyer
always had Yeah, two by three.
Davina Palik
You can’t do a square crop. Like, I can’t do that. I can’t put that photo on my portfolio. And I’m like, why not? I can do whatever I want. If that speaks to me, and like, I just don’t feel like I’m performing for anyone anymore. And it just, in a lot of ways we unpack
Dan Moyer
this a little bit more like, Yeah, let’s do it. Like, yeah, because there’s so much talent coming into the photography, community, young photographers, and to get scientific about it. There’s this thing called the Dunning Kruger effect. Have you heard of this? Now, basically says that like, because the learning curve is so steep in the beginning, there’s like an overconfidence that happens in the beginning, where it’s like, oh, I got this, right. Like I’m doing doing the thing I’ve done five weddings is like, Okay, I’ve got this. And then as you get into it further, you sort of like crossed the hump, and you realize, the more you know, the more you realize you don’t know. And you start to get to this point where like, like you just said, it’s like, you know, there’s all this stuff that we’re supposed to get, we’re supposed to make the good money we’re supposed to do in person sales was posted, do this, right. Like, and I love that you’re just like, I’m coming at it from a different place. Like, you know, it’s almost like sacrilege to say you’re charging cheaper on purpose, right? Like, you’re not supposed to say that divino What are you talking about? But like there’s, there’s no right or wrong way. I think it’s just the way that fits you, right, like I did in person sales for a while. And I stopped because it was just taking up too much time that I wanted to spend with my kiddos, right? Like, I don’t feel like having to add like another whole session on to the evening to be away from my family or whatever. Like, I’m just not trying to do that with my business. I like that my businesses nimble, it’s just me, I can make a decision that I want to do this or not do this or do less. So sorry. I just word vomited there. But I want to go back to what you’re saying about like this, like coming at this from a different perspective. Now, what is the perspective that you’ve gained now being, you know, years into being a photographer, but then taking a break? And now starting over from a new place, but a much more informed place?
Davina Palik
Okay, I’m going to answer that question. Kind of a little Isla Ted last, so we’re like, I’m gonna go and talk about something else for a bit. Yeah. I loved it. Oh, my god, me too. It makes me so happy. Yes. So I’m one of the many things that I’m doing now, one of the many hats that I wear is part time master’s student. So I’m getting my master’s degree at the moment, and I am doing what, it’s a Masters of Science. So I love the sciency stuff, apparently, in its in consciousness, spirituality and transpersonal psychology, so very much in line with all of the things that I’ve been experiencing over the last couple of years. And, and, you know, a lot of the things that we are involved in at the moment. So for one of my classes, we were invited to, for the year to take on five different practices to address the different domains of self. So, for example, like physical would be like one of the domains of self or intrapersonal. So you know, with somebody else, spiritual, mental, I’ve named four out of five, I forget the other one. Anyway. And so these domains of self, you’re supposed to pick a practice, and then stick to it for six months. And the idea is to be the researcher of our own experience. So your journaling, we’re taking a lot of notes about, like, what came up for me today, and what am I noticing, and it’s very, you know, self led in that sense. But there’s also a lot of it’s supplemented with a lot of scientific research on transformation on practices, things like that, which I found super interesting. So in parallel to experiencing things firsthand, or also reading different theories, based on research of, you know, what tends to happen to people when they take on practices, the types of themes that can show up resistance, what does that look like? Things like that? I just submitted my essay, my final essay for this project. So it’s kind of Top of Mind it was very transformative in so many ways and one of my practices was dancing ecstatic dance for the physical so I picked it. So I would go down we have a beautiful yoga Shala here where we do, Daniel and I host breathwork ceremonies and other people come in and do ceremonies, that’s incredible. And so I will go down there and with my headphones, and I will just oftentimes go into the ice bath. And then after just dance, like no one’s watching, and I’m assuming no one’s watching, because it’s pretty private, but who knows. And so I will
Dan Moyer
just got a webcam hooked up down there.
Davina Palik
Not even like you don’t even want to watch. It’s so weird sometimes. But that’s the point is I just do whatever the hell my body wants to do. And over six months of doing this practice, it changed, you know, I gave myself more and more permission to just go for it, whatever that looks like. And sometimes I feel like I’m a little girl pretending to be a ballerina. Other times, I feel like I’m a warrior marching off to battle. And sometimes I get angry, sometimes I cry, I get sad, I get nostalgic, I often end up crying. But it’s it’s a way to connect to my body. It’s a way to release emotions. And by the way, like everyone needs something that does that, you know, something that allows you to release emotion, something, something that allows you to connect to your body to move to your body, it’s so foundational to who we are as humans. And so giving myself permission through this practice, it changed the way I started seeing a lot of other things. Because instead of being like, oh, it needs to look this way, just like I did, you know, when I was a wedding photographer, I need to do it like this. And I need to show up with certain images. And people need to be impressed by what I create, and all of this pressure that I would put on myself, well, I don’t need to do any of that I can just do whatever feels like wants to be created. You know, that’s what it means to be creative ultimately, is your your kind of channeling something, it’s coming from a deep place, it’s not coming from the mind. Not necessarily the mind can be helpful, you know, to give to guide you in some ways, but ultimately has to come from a deeper place. And I learned that through the very simple practice of just moving my body regularly, and just giving myself permission, and more and more permission and more and more and more. And being curious, like, what happens if I do that? You know, how do I feel? And how do I feel? Maybe shame comes up? You know, when can I look at that? And what else can I do? What else can I look at? It’s just this unfolding, going deeper and deeper. And eventually, I can’t say I fully live my life this way. But there’s this big surrender that’s kind of happened that at least I now know what that feels like what that looks like. And even though I don’t always operate from that place, I can I can tune back into that. And I can be aware when I’m no longer you know, I call it like for my paper I called it dancing with life. You know, it’s a little cheesy.
Dan Moyer
I know. That’s pretty, it’s lovely. The surrender that you’re talking about? Is that like, is that something that happens? It’s like a big feels and then you try to move on from that place or is that like a surrender after each of these like dance practices that you have like a regular surrender after each one? Or is it like a big thing that you feel like happens after a while? Or both?
Davina Palik
Both I think it’s like surrender is so tough to explain. It’s funny in 2020 I picked surrender is my word of the year and I embossed on my agenda. I laugh at that now because now my agenda is like a piece of paper like stuck on my wall. You know? I was very Yeah, I was I still am there’s that part of me still exists that like things a certain way. And yes, but yeah, it was a beautiful black like moleskin agenda with the word surrender and Boston gold on it. But I didn’t know what that meant at the time. And I think we I continue to learn what that means. You know, it’s Surrender means to me like, Okay, I’m going to do my best. It’s the opposite of like, I’m doing this like holding, squeezing like, oh, no, the resistance of like, No, that can’t happen or No, not like that. And the opposite of that would mean that you’re just complacent and you’re like, oh, whatever, you know, it’s just but it’s also inviting things to come in or to happen that maybe aren’t exactly the way you imagine them and seeing if maybe there’s something in there that’s greater for you. It might be a lesson. Or it might be just like this hidden gem. I don’t know. But now you’re highly recommend the book the surrender experiment by Michael singer. You said you weren’t going to ask me about my favorite books or books that I recommend. But I do recommend that really comes up. I read so many books and I have so many recommendations I’ve been meaning to put together a little list actually. Oh, probably a big list actually.
Dan Moyer
Okay, what are the before we go on the surrender experiment by who?
Davina Palik
Michael singer.
Dan Moyer
Okay. All right. What’s two more books that are just on the top of your mind because you brought it up?
Davina Palik
Okay, fine. The Body Keeps the Score. I’ve heard of that one. Yeah, it’s a well known one. It is everything you need to know. I think maybe not everything you need to know. But a lot of what everyone should know about trauma. It’s really well written. It’s very complex. It’s very nuanced. And I feel like it was a, it was a class in, you know, trauma informed class basically reading that book. Yeah. Okay. That’s a really big one. Oh, my gosh, the idea that I’m like, just one more, there’s so many more. Okay, well, I’ll say the one that’s on top of mind right now, I had to read it for school. It’s called Living deeply. I don’t remember the author’s there were three of them, Doc, they’re all doctors VITAS is one of them. I know. Schlitz Vita and, and Amarok, I believe are the names of the three there. They it’s about transformation. It’s about practices. And it’s basically a compilation of a lot of research on what transformation looks like. It’s the one I had to read for my for my class on practices. And it’s, it’s brilliant. I’m constantly going back to it.
Dan Moyer
Speaking of going back to something I want to go, I want to go back to one thing, that there’s like a level of bullshit that a bunch of us do to like, try to trick ourselves into like the thing or it’s like, I need to get this book that says surrender on the front of it, right? And it’s like, or, like, I’m going to start a running habit. So I need to buy $300 New shoes, right? Or like, there’s just like, all this stuff, or like, I’m gonna go to the gym. So I need to buy all brand new clothes, it’s like, and there’s a level of just like, moving beyond that. You know, you said you had like an agenda that’s like this black bound book. And now it’s one piece of paper, right? What is it that we really need to get started? I don’t know that that directly relates to surrender. But that’s just something that like, it constantly is blocking me from, like, doing the things that I really want to do, like, oh, I can’t work out today, because I don’t know what to do, right? It’s like, no, no, just lace up my shoes and go for the run. Or I can’t like, I can’t move forward on this big project I want because I’m not sure of the next, the next five steps. I don’t have a plan in front of me. But do you have the next first step? It’s like, Yes, I can I know what I want to do. I’m trying to write a book right now. So it’s like, just write every day just right. But yeah, I love that, like you moved on from this, like, oh, I need to have this thing and the book and the embossing to this simple thing.
Davina Palik
I don’t know that I’ve moved on me. But I definitely can be aware when I’m using that, you know, or when I’m striving for that, and what that looks like. And I think it does tie in to surrender, because in a way, I think we’re constantly getting little, you know, hits a little downloads of like, inspiration and things like that. Like, can you act on the small thought of like, maybe I need to move my body right now, you know, what can that look like? What can that look like at a minimum? What can it look like in its fullest expression, maybe for you fullest expression would be going to the gym or going for a run or whatever, maybe. And if it’s, you know, minimum, it means it looks like getting up because you’ve been sitting for a while and stretching a little bit. And maybe that leads to something else. For me, the first step for movement is often going down to our yoga Shala. It’s like going into the space. And then you know, seeing what is calling to, you know, to emerge, like, is it yoga? Is it a workout? Is it the ice bath? Is it you know, what does that look like? What do I need, and I think oftentimes, we’re just not tapped into what we need. And for that, we need stillness, we need slowing down, but we forget, or we pretend like we don’t need that, or, you know, we have very good excuses why we’re too busy for it. And I live in a place that’s constantly reminding me to slow down, like whether I like it or not, you know, in so many ways. But I think that’s really key. You know, I mentioned before, we need things that practices that connect us to our body, we need practices that allow us to express emotion, you know, whether that looks like having a good cry in the shower, or, you know, calling a friend or whatever that looks like, and it can look so different for for different people. But it can also look different, depending on the day for you, you know, but ultimately, the idea is to, to move some of this energy, if you will, you know, and and I think that yeah, oftentimes we have that, that intuition, we just don’t always act on it, or we don’t give ourselves enough space to hear what our own needs are. That’s why practices are so important to me. And you know, I’m hosting this year long group right now with these amazing women. And we meet every two weeks and we all have committed to certain practices, and we kind of talk about how they’re working for us how they’re maybe not working for us and ultimately holding ourselves or each other accountable but doesn’t feel like the right word. I call it gentle accountability because you know, it’s meant to be fluid and it’s meant to be intuitive, and it’s beautiful to see the ways that they are constantly recognizing their needs, you know, like, I need more activity like one of the participants will be like I need to do push ups this week. So I’m committing to doing push ups every day just for Live every day, you know, or whatever that looks like, and, and some of them do change depending week to week. You know, I need I need nurturing this week or today I need nurturing, you know, how can I tune in and give myself what I need? And, and it’s the small commitment to yourself, you know, but that’s where you can then show up in the world, you know, from it’s, again, a cliche, filling up your own cup before you can give to others, you know, love that one. That’s the way he is. I mean, it’s, it’s a cliche for a reason it’s true, you know, you, you can operate from a completely different place when you’ve taken care of yourself.
Dan Moyer
I’m curious about this, like being so sort of self aware and in touch with yourself that you are able to say like, oh, I need this this week, is that, how do you cultivate that is that just a matter of you sort of mentioned it before, like silence and stillness. Like I’m becoming a huge believer in meditation, like, I always sort of knew that it had a place. But there’s a massive amount of even scientific evidence about, you know, brain chemistry and neuroplasticity, and you know, how it affects digestion and heart rate and stress and like, all these different things, this huge, long list? Is it? Is it that like, how do we start to cultivate that ability to be self aware and know what you need on a, you know, weekly, and sometimes minute by minute basis?
Davina Palik
Yeah, I mean, meditation is an excellent practice for that I’m going through a bit of a rough patch with meditation, and that I’m trying to meditate every morning. And I feel like I just sit there and think about things the whole time.
Dan Moyer
That’s kind of my mind. Yeah, I’m
Davina Palik
like, I just need enough backup space to witness all the thoughts without like, fully hopping on the thought train and then just ending up in another town. You know, journaling is, continues to be one of my favorite practices for that, because like, you just get to really see like, what’s true for me right now, like just that as your journaling prompt? You know, what’s are what am I feeling right now? What’s, what’s coming up? What do I feel just that small inquiry into yourself? In in the moment where you have, you know, your pen in your hand and you’re in your journal or whatever method of journaling you choose? I find that oftentimes things come up. And it gives me that distance, much like meditation does, you know, it’s like, well, today, I’m feeling like, I’m not doing enough that came up for me recently. I’m not good enough for anyone right now. I’m not showing up enough for the women in my group. I’m not giving the kids what I feel they need. I feel like I’m being a lousy partner to Daniel, there’s a bunch of friends that I’ve been meaning to reach out to, and I haven’t, you know, and it’s not about finding a resolution of being like, Okay, I will now make it my goal to reach out to these people and to do that and to make these efforts because I don’t think that sets me up for success. Yeah. I think just acknowledging it like, Okay, I feel that way. That’s how I feel right now. And maybe out of that, you know, or if I feel like, I feel physically heavy, I feel like I don’t have much energy, it’s like, okay, well, maybe out of that inquiry that that will be revealed, or journaling will reveal that need, well, then maybe I’ll feel like maybe I need a gentle yoga flow today. Or maybe I need to go for a bike ride or whatever, I need to move my body in some kind of way that nourishes me. So yeah, meditation, even just contemplation I think is really overrated. Like, can you sit in his chair and look outside your window at like, a tree or something in nature even better, like, go out and be immersed in nature? And, you know, think about stuff or just you what comes to you, you know what? contemplation is? Yeah, it’s overrated. Because like, yes, it’s thinking, so we kind of give gets a bad rap, because we think meditation is the way to go. But I don’t know, I have a lot of really important insights and a lot of like, ultimately, my, my contemplation often leads me to self compassion. Like, that’s often where the roads lead back is like, it’s okay. Like, you’re doing your best. Maybe right now, you don’t have too much energy. Maybe right now you feel like you’re failing in these areas, but like, you’re okay. And that’s, that’s what I think we constantly need to be reminded of, is that reaching that part of us, that’s, that’s okay. And being reminded of that, even when we feel like, you know, we’re not okay, or that’s not okay. Or this thing that’s happening to me is not okay. Like, there’s a piece that I feel I can always touch inside me that that is okay. Oh, is
Dan Moyer
this um, all these sort of practices and like, I think I’m similar to you and that, you know, things are only just about the practice for me, I want to know the behind the scenes and the why of it. Like I want the the knowledge to come with it as well. So I like to read especially about this, the topics that we’re talking about. It’s
Davina Palik
funny, it reminds me again, of photography, I love the parallels that we’re drawing here, because I remember doing workshops and people would be it was usually a man would be like, Oh, what’s the setting on that? And what’s the model of this? And I’d be like, I don’t know.
Dan Moyer
I don’t know. Okay, just doing it.
Davina Palik
I go, like I shot from a place of oftentimes from intuition as well, like, well Why did you change your I see your settings on here? If we do like, you know, reviews of photos, like why did you choose that F stop. I’m like, I didn’t really choose it. I just kind of like, did it. It was just there. And like, there’s that voice inside of me that would be like, Oh my God, you’re such an amateur, you know, like, you can’t even answer this technical question. And I kind of feel that way when I do breath work now too, because like, yeah, I learned all the science you reasons why breath work is good for your body and your brain and your immune system and all of that. Like, did I memorize all the facts? No, you know, what I know is that breathwork makes people feel amazing. And it brings up stuff, they cry, they scream, they feel like they have big releases, often they connect to childhood memories. And then, you know, they got a bunch of health benefits in the process, you know, but everyone gets something out of it. And it’s beautiful. And I love being able to facilitate that and hold that space. But like, if someone comes in who’s very sciency, like that, like, I’ll often be like, there’s lots of sciency things, yada, yada, yada. If you care about it, I can send you some links. But like, ultimately, I’m here to hold a space of love. And that’s where I come come at it from so yeah, it’s, um, I’ve kind of had to accept that about myself that like, it’s okay. Like, I can also be more than one thing, like, I’m learning about science in school right now. And I had this whole imposter syndrome of being like, oh, no, I have to learn the sciency things, but it’s like I can learn them doesn’t mean that it has to, like change my values of like, what’s most important to me, you know, connecting intuitively to things continues to be more important to me than connecting intellectually to things and like, that’s okay.
Dan Moyer
Yeah. Earlier in the podcast, you had said that you had, you know, depression for a long time resulting from some childhood stuff. And there now it seems like you’re putting some building blocks into place to you said it was like a pit, like a dark pit. And I’ve heard this analogy before, that’s like, you’re driving along in a car, and all sudden, bam, you’re in like this dark pit. And then like, the next day, you’re driving along, and bam, you’re in this dark pit again. And then you drive along the next day. And it’s like, you catch a glimpse of the pit beforehand. And you start like putting some of these things into place, to eventually allow you to like slow down before you get to the pit before we fall in and then slow down enough to stop, get out of your car tiptoe up to the pit and be like, I’m not going in you today. And then you walk around it is, is that what we’re talking about is like the breathwork the yoga the you know, six month self discovery or self? I forget what how you described it, but like this, like, look at different parts of yourself, is that what you’re trying to work through? Is that are these all things to help you move to a place that is more like who you want to be? Or to cope with those things? What are these do for you?
Davina Palik
So yeah, there’s a couple of things. It’s, it’s tricky, because I don’t want to insinuate that, like you can control being depressed or not. And I think like, that’s very, I want to tread lightly to not suggest that all I can speak of is my own experience. And I think that again, awareness has been such a big part of it, like, being able to witness it, like, Oh, there’s the pit. And it’s not, obviously it’s not visual, I’m not, I don’t literally see it, it manifests for me in like, Oh, I feel yucky in my belly, you know? Or like, Oh, I feel low energy, or I’m having a lot of thoughts that are like, not so kind to myself. And there’s a lot of symptoms, I guess. So it’s a matter for me if I identifying those symptoms, and remaining in the seat of the observer, you know, just witnessing that being like, okay, that’s coming up, that’s coming up that’s coming up. And not I don’t I try not to force things into happening. That’s part of the idea of surrender. I don’t want to surrender into feeling depressed, obviously. But I also don’t want to force myself to not be depressed. Maybe if those things are coming up, maybe there’s some emotions that are coming to the surface that just need to be felt. Like, that’s what I did just before I hopped on this call with you, you know, I went down to the ice bath. I go into the ice bath every day. That’s my daily practice. I never in a million years thought that I would say that because I load the ice bath and people love to say like, oh, cold water smell for me. It’s like Yeah, no shit. It’s not for me either. But, you know, I’ve built a relationship with that practice. And it caught me completely by surprise because I would have never chosen it but it kind of worked out this way. But it brings things to the surface. You know, if I’m in there, I kind of have to surrender to the cold. And today I went in knowing that like I had a motion to release and so I cried in the ice bath and then I got out of the ice bath and I went to sit in the sun and then I cried in the sun and you know, move this stuff through and sometimes it’s sometimes it’s movement that will bring it out but yeah, that was kind of like I see the symptoms of things like coming up for me and me Maybe it just means that there’s grief that needs to be felt like today. That’s what it was. There’s grief, like it’s Max’s birthday tomorrow. I’m so grateful for him today. And I also at the same time really miss his little baby Venus. And I was looking at these photos, and I miss her old house and looking at the photos reminded me of our old house and our old life. And it’s like, being able to hold paradox is one of the greatest lessons I don’t want to say that I’ve learned. But I continue to learn is like, two things can be true at the same time. And that’s why, you know, we fight with one another a lot, because you’re like, No, this is my truth. And that person is like, No, this is my truth. And it conflicts with yours, it’s like, and yet somehow, they can both be true, you know, you can both be right. It can. multiple things can be true. At the same time, it can be true that I missed that life like crazy. I missed that house. It felt like home. And I’m really happy in this life. I feel super grateful for what we have. I’m grateful for this house. I’m grateful for you know, all of that. And like they’re both true. It’s not like, and that’s where you don’t have to regret. I can’t say like, oh, I regret coming here. It’s like, Well, I’m here. So obviously, there’s no point in feeling that way. And I don’t feel that way. But I miss it. I ache for it. There’s that that is still true. And those emotions just they just need to be felt. And they don’t control like emotions don’t need to control us, I think as much as we think they need to as long as they have a healthy outlet, I think. Yeah, I mean, I’m still figuring that out.
Dan Moyer
Aren’t we all? Yeah, I was I was out for a run recently. And there’s a long run. I did seven miles. And that was the longest I’d done in a little while. But I was like, I want to push myself today. And I felt really good. And so I’m running and I’m coming up to six and a half miles, I’m almost to my house. And I come up onto this playground. And I’m running past the playground. And I had this flashback of running past the playground when it was all like, taped up with caution tape, because during the pandemic, Nobody’s allowed to use the parks for a while. And, and I had this and I was like, Why did? Why is that like a thing that I’m holding on to and that sort of thinking that my children’s childhood was sort of like taken from them, right? Because our my twins were born in July of 2019. They were early babies. So they didn’t really see anybody, we didn’t go anywhere, and then all sudden pandemic hit, and then it was just, you know, us and my six year old cooped up for a long time. And I’m trying to think of it now. It’s like, okay, it doesn’t have to be this thing. And I’m trying to use it as this idea of like, you know, driving a car so you can honor what’s in the rearview mirror, but not let it distract you from like, what’s coming up. And you know, there’s so much and I’m just thinking about the unreasonable thing about my kids, you’re talking about Max, and now he’s nine now and then, and you know, you miss all this old stuff. And I kept thinking, like, you know, my kids are three, they’re going to be forced, like, where did this first time go? It’s like, oh, well, the first couple of years, like, we did nothing, they didn’t, we didn’t see my family, we didn’t see friends, we didn’t do anything. And it’s like, yeah, that happened. And it mattered. But like, don’t let that be so distracting from like, all the good stuff that we have coming up that, you know, my parents are so into visiting, and, and we can take them places, and we’re getting out more and all that stuff. I’m just rambling now, but I just think it’s so easy to get lost in that, that like, oh, this happened, or that happened, or, you know, I mean,
Davina Palik
yes, tricky balance to, to, to kind of honor the past and the emotions that are coming up and the memories and you know, what we might still be holding on to, and not just like, you have to live in the present. Everybody knows that, you know, like, mindfulness present here. And now, that’s all that matters. It’s all we got, you know, like, we know that, you know, and I think it’s important to keep that perspective. But I think like, you know, I’ve been reading a lot recently about spiritual bypassing. So, you know, the idea that, like, you can fall into the trap when you’re on any kind of journey or path, you know, in this case, they use the term spirituality, but you know, doesn’t have to, that’s kind of a loaded term, I’m writing an article or not an article, but a paper about that, right now, for school. It’s a loaded term, but you know, the idea that we need to be positive, you know, we need to stay positive, like love and light only, and, you know, the darkness and the shadow. Like, we need to overcome that we need to overcome the ego, you know, there’s this kind of, like, positive and negative and we need to only focus on the positive and like, that’s bullshit, you know, that’s not it’s not going to help us either. Ultimately. So honoring the emotions instead of pushing them down, but also, yes, moving on, and being in the present. And, you know, so there’s that, again, kind of a paradox, and it’s delicate, you know, because you need to not constantly be attached to the past and yet maybe there’s stuff that needs to be addressed or that needs to be felt or that needs to be have resolved or else you are so kind of carrying on with that. And when things pop up like that, from the past a memory or something like that, I think it’s a worthwhile inquiry, you know, to just be like, what’s, what’s that? You know, like you did? What’s the story attached to that maybe because oftentimes, like, that’s really what it is, is like something from the past has maybe gotten us stuck in a pattern, or we have a story attached to it. And maybe we’re still carrying that story. And we’re still living that story, even though maybe it’s not true anymore. And that’s really at the heart of trauma, as well as that, like, you know, you can still be living from that traumatized place. Instead of recognizing, you know, having the body the brain, you know, not just spirit, but actually like your physical body, your physical brain being attached to what happened, you know, and, yeah, trauma is a whole other thing, but I’ve learned a lot about that as well. And you know, recognizing how that is an attachment to the past, ultimately, with various levels of complexity, obviously,
Dan Moyer
do you know who Courtney doe Walter is? That sounds familiar to you? She’s an ultra runner, ultra marathoner. She like crushes everybody, like men, women doesn’t matter. Like, she’s in a most recent race, she like beat the next person over like a 250 mile race by like, 12 hours, like she is just amazing. And she talks about it, we’re talking about, like, how we’re always supposed to be happy and positive. And we, we ignore the dark stuff, we want to not kind of deal with that. And she talks about when you’re out there alone, and you’re just like running for 40 hours, or whatever it is, and you have this, she’s like, I used to avoid the pain cave, I never wanted to go there. Because it was scary. And, and, you know, she’s done many, many of these races now over like, 10 plus years. And she said, you know, want to get to the pain cave. Now, I sort of embrace it. Because it’s where I really find something about myself, it’s where I really just like, I literally picture myself sort of, like, you know, in this place where I embrace it a picture myself with like a hammer and a chisel just like, you know, creating new pathways and new ways through this cave to create and find new ways to reach light on the other end, or whatever. And I think it’s so powerful, because it’s so like, there was definitely just an article somewhere. That was like the happiness conundrum. It’s like, everybody just wants to be happiness, happy, happy, happy. But there’s this whole other side of of like you’re saying, just being inquisitive about, like, why did this thing come up? Like, maybe it’s okay to just sit with like this, this like, icky feeling that you have, and I’m similar like, my, my trauma, sort of, sometimes I have to rub my hands together to bring me back to right now, because I’m so anxious about you know, the future are so caught up in the past, it’s like, let me just bring it back to right now. And then explore that place from you know, rather than exploring with anxiety, it’s like, well, I mean, why is that coming up? Like, what’s, what’s the story, I’m telling myself about there. But exploring that dark place? You know, especially if you do it with with the help of somebody else is so valuable than just like putting on the face all the time, which I’m a recovering people pleaser. So yeah, there’s that.
Davina Palik
Yeah, same. And yeah, there’s so much I could say one of the practices that I had committed to doing this year for my course was to posts on Instagram, which sounds hilarious, because it’s like, doesn’t sound very like spiritual at all. But it was for my emotional practice, actually. So the idea was that I was going to face a lot of my fears, which is showing up on social media is something that I have a lot of fear around. Like, about a year ago, I posted this video of Charlie, my daughter with Yeah, but it went completely viral.
Dan Moyer
You could say with like a little knit model of the vagina, right?
Davina Palik
vulva very important, not the vagina. That’s actually a big part of the video. You need to watch it again. Okay. Good. So yes, it was like a little crocheted. Yeah, model of a vulva that showed like, you know, the anatomy of the external genitalia. And Charlie, who was five at the time, she’s just like, explaining what the parts are and explaining that this is actually a vulva and not the vagina, the vagina is the inside part. And I was very proud of how I’m raising her. And the fact that she knows a lot of this stuff. And from speaking to a lot of my friends, people come to me a lot actually about talking to their kids, especially their daughters about certain things because they know my story. I’ve been very, you know, upfront about the fact that I was sexually abused as a child and how, if I had known and had more agency over my own body, I think I would have known a lot sooner that what was going on with me was not okay, but I trusted the adult. And I think I found out way too late. Like, it was embarrassing for me. I was, you know, in a lot of ways, like I felt so betrayed, like by all the adults who hadn’t told me that, you know, this is my body and this is what it’s, you know, yeah. It’s yours ultimately. So yeah, a big part of that. And I again, like sciency stuff. There is a lot of research that shows that kids who just know Know how to name their body parts are less likely to be sexually abused, they’re just less likely to be victims because they, they have more agency over their bodies. So this is like a big part of the message I wanted to put out there. And I made this video, I didn’t think anything of it honestly, I don’t have like, a million followers. So I just blew up, posted it, it blew up, I am still getting messages about it people. I mean, I had to shut down the comments because it was just out of control. And there was a lot of negativity. And I understand people are very triggered by it, they don’t understand. You know, there’s a lot of misunderstanding about that whole topic. And it’s too big for me to even tackle, you know what I mean? It’s like, to me, it was like one small step that I wanted to make for other parents to show their kids, for them to understand. And even adults, you know, like saying, a lot of people wrote me as adults being like, Oh, I always called it the vagina, I didn’t realize there’s a difference between the vulva and the vagina. And like, why is that important? Well, because these are our bodies, like we should know, we should understand. And, you know, again, research shows that it is empowering on a lot of levels. So the positive feedback I got was huge. And like, I wholeheartedly stand by that. And I also understand that a lot of people had problems with it, were confused, etc, etc. But my little like, poor self, could not handle it. I have to mention the attention, I would see my phone and I would start having like a panic attack, just the sight of my phone. Like I had to shut down Instagram, I told Daniel, like, you can have my Instagram account on your so that you can kind of field messages because there were so many people were angry, people were supportive people said it, you know, was so important. People said it was awful, you know, every single opinion you could possibly have about something was thrown at me. And it taught me that I care a lot about what people think. My ego doesn’t like that. being criticized, but also just that it’s way too much attention. Like I was like, I do not want that kind of attention. I know a lot of people who like you know, have grown these Instagram accounts where they’re giving, they’re giving advice, or they’re sharing things, and it’s beautiful. And they still, you know, it’s hundreds of positive comments. And then, you know, two or three people like finding something negative about it, or those little comments, like they really destroyed me, like I was in a really, really bad place. I felt like, Did I do something wrong? Like, I everything, it all came up. And we actually, there were so many so many things that as a result, you know, in my own mind, but I had to kind of work work through that and continue to look at it and I do continue. It’s not like healed. You know, it’s it’s I continue to have to look at why it’s so scary for me to feel rejected by others.
Dan Moyer
Is that a part of the reason why, like from that experience with Charlie and all the attention you’ve got? Is that why you decided to do this, this practice of showing up on Instagram to like go into the lion’s den sort of so to speak.
Davina Palik
Yeah. So thanks for bringing it back. Yes, I don’t remember what brought me to bringing up that practice. In the first place. The fact that I was supposed to show up on social media, but I didn’t really I haven’t done it much. And when I wrote my paper, it was more about reflecting on all the resistance I had towards the practice. And all the things that it brought up. For me, the people pleaser, I think that’s maybe what triggered me to say that, you know, the idea of like, what if someone misunderstands me, you know, or is mean, or you know, etc, etc.
Dan Moyer
There was something that you had wrote news on Facebook, where I think Daniel had taken some pictures of you and you were exploring your body and things like that. And then somebody from like, your past was like going to overthrow to Divina naked or something. It’s like, bro, shut up, like, stop.
Davina Palik
Yeah, he was my bully, too. He was so mean to me, like so much of like, my childhood is around like, like, I had to work through so many of the things that this kid did to me. He was he was terrible, sending him lots of love and light,
Dan Moyer
love and like, love and Lord.
Davina Palik
But yes, and then there was someone else who wrote me, you know, conservative, just being like your mother, you should not show your body in this way on social media. And I’m Yeah, I don’t want to care. Because I think a lot of people will look at this and be like, Oh, well, it’s because you’re, you know, you’re judging yourself or you don’t agree with what you did, like, you know, it could be twisted in that way. But I don’t think it’s that simple. Like, I do believe in what I post and what I do, like I do stand by it. Again, maybe it’s apparent that paradox, you know, but I also like I’m very sensitive to being crude Besides about it, you know, which I think like, a lot of people would argue that like, well, if you’re going to show up and you’re going to do that, then you better be like strong and you better like, know how to handle criticism. And it’s like, yes, but also, like, I still want people to, I just want people to be nice. And to understand that, like, not everyone’s the same. And there are nuances. And that’s a thing. And we all come from different places. And, yeah, that’s, that’s my ideal wish for the world, obviously. But also, I believe in the positives of doing of showing up in certain ways. Like, every time I take a risk, and I post a photo, or I post a caption, or I express something, some kind of vulnerability, that big, overused vulnerability word. You know, it does a lot of good. And people tell me that, and I have to hold on to that, like, if I’m called to share something, or to do something like that, like, I have to believe that, you know, there’s, there’s a benefit to it, and that people are going to connect it, it’s important, and not push myself beyond my comfort zone, you know, not put myself in a situation where, you know, like, last year, that was way too much like I had to shut it down, I shut down the comment, comments, I was like, I don’t want to hear it any more positive or negative, I can’t. And there was shame. We talked about this earlier, but shame that I felt about being so distraught over it. So not only was I so affected by it, but then I felt like I should, because I was shooting all over myself as we do shootings and care this much. They shouldn’t care this much that people are saying that, you know, I stand by what I shared. And I believe in the way I’m raising my daughter, so I should let it go. And then when I wasn’t feeling that way, I felt shame about you know, caring so much. Like, oh, I’m not spiritually evolved enough to let it brush off. And to be like, I don’t care. You know, like the subtle art of not giving a fuck like that, but I read it. Yep. Like, it sounds so simple. Why can’t I just do that something must be wrong with me. But it’s not it was just an opportunity to look at it. Oh, yes, this is this is why I talked about this, because you talked about the icky feeling of being like sitting with the icky, like that, to me was the ultimate achiness of being like, oh, people are out there throwing so much like, hate at me, or like negativity at me and like, I feel it and terrible. And now I feel shame about it. And there’s layers upon layers of things coming up as a result, and I hate it. But I have to sit with it. That’s
Dan Moyer
tricky. That like the same thing, like when there’s somebody or like some so I read plenty of things like the subtle art of not giving a fuck by Mark Manson totally read that there’s all these great like one liner quotes about haters and all that stuff. Like, like Haters gonna hate. Yeah, there’s that but like, there’s one that’s like, you know, it’s like, I think it’s Tim Ferriss who were like, 10% of people are gonna are gonna be offended or find some way to be offended by anything you say, treat his math move on. But there’s still this thing of like, like, you’re trying to put out like something positive in something good and put a little light into the world. And, and yet, there’s still somebody who’s like to like, wants to put their, you know, put a sniffer over top of your light or whatever. And it’s so frustrating when that happens. Because anytime you put something out there, you’re being vulnerable, and you just want like this positive reaction. But it’s easier said than done to just move on from this. You know, one thing or like, you get this one comment. And we do that in the wedding photography world, or the photography world as well. It’s like you have all these amazing clients that are amazing. They’re super hyped on you that leaving lots of reviews. And there’s this one person who asked for like something extra? Or do you have any other photos or this wasn’t unexpected, and you’re just plummeting to the ground with? Oh, I should even do this anymore. I’m a terrible photographer. I can make anybody happy. Yeah, I hear that all the time.
Davina Palik
I think that’s you absolutely nailed it. I think it’s really important to I guess it’s gonna come back to a paradox again, to like, acknowledge that. And yes, to keep it into perspective, because like, it’s true, that it’s not true. And yet to honor the fact that like, but it feels really icky. And like, you’re feeling that and you don’t want to, like, throw that away. Because that kind of can lead to shame. You know, like, if someone tells you like, Oh, my God, just suck it up. Like, it’s math, you know, which is probably true, that 10% thing makes a lot of sense. I mean, I’ve seen it literally, like, since anything, somebody will find something negative, like, here’s a cute cat, it’s like, and someone has something negative to say about it, you know, it’s just, it’s ridiculous. But it doesn’t mean that it doesn’t hurt, you know, and it doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with you because it hurts or that you should feel shame about it. You know, it’s maybe it’s something you do need to explore. And maybe it is something that might be like a trailhead for therapy, you know, that you want to dig into like, this is coming up for me a lot right now. It’s kind of a theme, you know, the people pleasing or feeling shame or whatever, like, I want to dig into that. I’m feeling like that might be this might be a good time to do that. So that’s in that sense, it can be kind of an invitation to look at something. And that’s, that’s kind of part of living life from a place of surrender. or two is recognizing like, Okay, this thing is here, it’s coming up for me. You know, it’s very inconvenient, I don’t want to look at this right now. But maybe there’s a reason it’s coming up right now maybe it is time to, you know, look at it, heal it, dig deeper, you know, whatever terminology you want to put around him.
Dan Moyer
So, as we’re like, starting to sort of wrap up here, we’ve talked several times, and you keep bringing up a lot of like the self work you’ve done in the practices that you’ve done. And I’m gonna ask you two questions, you get to pick which one you want one answer, okay. Or you can answer both either way, either. What’s like, the daily practices that are? You’ve already mentioned the cold plunge, but like, what are some of the other daily practices that have stuck around? Or over the last couple of years? What has been the most transformative practices for you in your healing journey? Either or? So daily or longterm?
Davina Palik
Hmm, I almost want to answer both questions at the same time, go for it. They’re kind of tied into one another. I have a really hard time with daily practices. I don’t know. I feel like
Dan Moyer
the routine of them. You mean? Like the routine? Yeah, oh, I need to do this every day.
Davina Palik
Yes, the routine of it. And also, because I kind of feel like I need different things on different days. And there’s kind of a flow that I try to follow, you know, and like with, like, even, like, my cycle will affect the way I feel, depending on the week, like so much. And that’s another thing that I’ve become really in tune to and trying to pay so much attention to? And just be very curious, like, because we tend to judge like, oh, today, I don’t want to do this, like, is it? Because it’s not serving me? Or it’s not what’s going to best serve me as a practice today? Or is it because I have resistance? Because I don’t want to face the discomfort of it. Like there’s that inquiry that’s really important. I think like the single most transformative practice that I have taken on, or that I’ve touched on, is that dance practice that I talked about, just because it really did teach me so much about flow, fluidity, getting out of my head, play, like just the play of it. Like, what if I go with no expectation, I just told myself, I’m going to dance for a bit. You can even put songs on shuffle, you know, and let shuffle surprise you. And just go with it and see what comes up. And there’s that curiosity that I think is really, a lot of us lose maybe along the way, because we try to control things and we want to, you know, know how things are going to come out and we want to push towards something. And I think the idea of surrender is to be curious about what’s there. And to, to invite it, you know, to, to observe it and that that curiosity is something I really learned from my dance practice to you know, like, what happens if I do it when I don’t want to do it? What happens, you know, and sometimes, like forcing myself into the practice wasn’t what I needed. And sometimes I would lay on a yoga mat and cry for 30 minutes instead. And that’s what I needed. And I would feel so many things. And that’s movement wasn’t the answer in that moment, you know, but the idea of just allowing yourself to flow to play to be curious, like, I think practices that foster these things have so much to offer.
Dan Moyer
That was my favorite part of our entire conversation was was that the first time you really went through that discussion about your dance practice and what you learned and how it learned how it changed over time, and the different ways that you’d be like a ballerina or a warrior? Yeah, that was my favorite part of this whole entire conversation.
Davina Palik
It was really cool. And really, like, kind of can step back now a little bit and be like, wow, like, look at what played out like this whole, like, practice challenge, if you will, you know that we were given this assignment for school, like it really did yield some really interesting insights. And it really was transformative. And a lot of the lessons that I that I learned and I want to share one specific day, please, which I think kind of speaks to surrender. So one day, I woke up early, it was like 530. And the sun was like just coming up. And I immediately heard my intuition be like, go down to the Shala. So it was kind of a conversation that went on, like, I don’t know, between which part of me and which part of me but I don’t want to I don’t want to go like I’m comfy in bed like the house is quiet. Like I don’t want to go like no, but just go. And so I kind of tried to stay stay one step ahead, if you will, of the voice that of resistance. And just to be like I hear you resistance, but I’m going to just go right into this other thing. And that’s what I do with the ice bath. Honestly, I just I go to the ice bath. I’m like, I don’t want to do it. And then I go in, like I don’t give it a chance give myself a chance to argue anymore. So that’s what happened that morning. Basically it was just a series of like, okay, my mind was like What are we going to do in the Shala? Should I get dressed to work out? Should I bring my bathing suit? Like, are we doing the ice bath? Like, what are we doing? You know, what’s the plan? And my intuition was like, no, just go. So I literally went down, like in whatever I was wearing to sleep, or what little I was ready to sleep, walk down to the Shala and just continue to follow like, whatever I wanted. So it was like, I had grabbed my headphones and my phone that was an intuition waterbottle phone and headphones. Then I was like, Okay, do I put on my headphones? Yes. What do I put on Fia, one of my favorite artists. She has just like, most beautiful music. Very, like uplifting. She reminds me that I’m okay. All the time through her songs. So I’m like, Okay, I put on I put on fear. Cool. And then now what do I do move? Okay, dance. Oh, a bit of yoga. Oh, a little bit of workout more dancing. It was this weird kind of flow. I just completely followed whatever it was that wanted to be expressed. Like that was that was it. And then it was like, Okay, now go in the ice bath. And at that time, this is probably early January, I had not yet done an ice bath. Without accountability. I had always done it in a group or with Daniel there. I’d never done it on my own. Because why would you write. So I did it. I went in. I did the thing. I still I didn’t have much of a relationship with it. At the time, though. I will say looking back that this was the thing that made me appreciate ice baths. Got out of the ice bath. And you know, I was naked because I had gotten that down there. And my sleep close. And I had just gotten naked to go in nice bath. And then I was sitting I went down into the sun. And I was sitting there with like, the sun was just rising and coming through the Shala. And it was hitting me like right on my solar plexus, like right on my chest. And I still had my headphones on. And I had a very again, that strong voice the more I listened to it, the stronger and clearer it was, it was just like, take off your headphones now. And again, I had a bit of resistance because I was really in the vibe of the music. Experience. You know, I was like, I don’t want to join the outside world. Like I’m liking this, but it was like no, take off your headphones. So I turned off my music. And I just heard it was like cicadas that we have a little waterfall that runs through and rainy season along our property. I could hear the rushing of the water there were howler monkeys in the distance, the birds were chirping, it was like so rich in sound. And I just had this feeling come through me it was right in my chest like, and it just felt like it was almost scary at the beginning because it was so physical. It’s like it was undeniably something was happening to my body is what it felt like it wasn’t just like, oh, I felt peaceful. It was like No, literally my heart felt like it was like exploding a little bit. And it was like opening. And I felt this sense of like deep connection to my environment. It was so powerful. And my entire body was tingling. I just felt like holy shit. Like I’ve never had that strong of an experience without the help of some kind of like breathwork or, you know, anything. It was just from following my intuition. And I just felt the most peace that I’ve ever felt. And that connects sense of connection to nature. And it was just it was all the things, you know, a mystical experience, the way they describe it. It was so beautiful. And it stayed with me. I had this feeling of peace that I that I stayed with. That was amazing. Did you sense that the Daniel was over my
Dan Moyer
head did not but I think my wife just opened the door a minute ago. I was like, Are you done? I’m sorry. Crap. I have one follow up question to that, though. Because when you have an experience like that, sometimes we we go into the practice wanting it again.
Davina Palik
Yes. Okay. They call that the seduction of the peak experience that’s from living play the book I recommend in science, you should have ever heard it right there. Right. It’s so good. The seduction of the peak experience. Yes, you seek that again. And again. And I think that’s one of the problems with people going after plant medicine is they’re like, holy shit, I want that again, I want that again, I want that again. And I think that’s what spirituality looks like is those experiences, but a mystical experience. And I study this in school is only like good insofar as it creates change in your life. It’s it can be a helpful tool, but it’s not, you know, the thing you should be seeking, ultimately, you want to live your life here, from whatever place you touched on. And that’s, you know, that’s kind of the lesson to be drawn for that. From that is like that feeling of interconnectedness, like what does that teach me about life about how I want to show up in life? You know, if that’s true, then how do I want to be with the people I interact with, you know, big or small.
Dan Moyer
So what you’re saying is that you just appreciate those experiences when they come along. But you continue to do your practices whenever they come, but then when the big ones like that and the transformative one come You can just throw me more special because they’re a surprise.
Davina Palik
Yeah, totally. And it is about the practices like just, you do it just to do it. You know, you don’t do it because you want or trying to reach something or get somewhere you’re, you’re engaging in the practices because you’re engaging with the practices.
Dan Moyer
Well shout out all the places that people can follow you or can become a part of your community or whatever things you want to share with any of the retreats you offer the different things that you offer. Shout it out.
Davina Palik
Yeah. Okay. So I do take on coaching clients, one on one, so that you can find that on divina palek.com, you can get in touch with me through there and also get to know more about you know what I do, some of which we touched on, Daniel and I also offer now, certain retreats we’re working on one next year here at our home. So it’ll be like a breathwork retreat, as well as some other actually, it’s very focused on practices that, you know, we have found very helpful and things that focus on integration that, you know, you come here and you do all these things, and then you can go home and you know, you can continue with some of these practices. So the idea is to introduce people to practices that they can then build a relationship with on their own time. We’re also hosting Well, we are kind of acting as a bridge with this amazing Peruvian medicine family. In the Andes. They become good friends of ours, and they are they work with Huachuma, which is a beautiful medicine from the Andes is a third generation generation income medicine man whose beautiful man who we adore. And so we’re hosting that so we’re basically you know, bringing in the people but then you know, the family takes takes the lead on the ceremonies and the actual serving of the medicine part that I guess you can contact me anywhere for that. I’ll be happy to pass on the info. And yeah, I’m Davina Kurdish at Divina Kurdish on Instagram, I never changed it to palek though I’ve been meaning to do it for a long time. But I’m still there as Davina Kurdish. And so whenever I have something new, like I do host like group things, a lot of like online groups, I like to do like journaling groups or practice groups and things like that, that you can find. I often will post that through Instagram. And, yeah, I’m taking on photography now as well. So that’s also my website. All of my various hats that I wear show up in it used
Dan Moyer
to happen just right, just let it happen. Yeah, it
Davina Palik
doesn’t fit into a neat little box that’s easy to fill into like a form. But it is what it is. It’s it’s fluid. And it’s it’s it’s where I’m at right now. So yeah,
Dan Moyer
this has been one of my favorite conversations, I think I’ve had, in all the episodes that I’ve recorded, it’s also might be the longest, which is awesome, because I’ve wanted to give
Davina Palik
him a surprise me at all. No, it’s okay.
Dan Moyer
But it’s also just, I don’t know, sometimes you just can’t fit a real conversation into this 30 to 45 minute thing. And so my favorite podcasts are like three hours long anyway. But I’m sorry, to my podcast editor Haley to deal with this one. But there’s like so many nuggets in here. And I’m so thankful for like your ability to be one and open book to to really share from this like, place of vulnerability. I know we, you know, vulnerability is like the token word, but it’s real. And you can tell that you have this, like, you know, passion for wanting to help others reach a place that is like, feels right, and that you’re a super self aware person. And I’m just thankful for your vulnerability for your thoughtfulness for your desire to wanting to like be part of a community that’s even like outside of your immediate space, like the big community online. And yeah, I’m just really thankful for the conversation. I feel like I’m gonna have to take some my own notes. And I took a whole bunch of stuff like the two writing prompts. Like, what’s true for me right now? And what’s coming up? And what do I feel? I love those two. And there’s many times where I’m like, in this space of like, what do I do with this? And I think those are two that I’m gonna use to integrate into my daily life when things like that happen. So thank you for those.
Davina Palik
Awesome, yeah, thank you. I receive that. And I appreciate that.
Dan Moyer
I’m really thankful that you were here. And I look forward to hopefully catching up again soon, because I feel like there’s some other stuff about trauma that we could talk about in some other episodes coming up. But yeah, I
Davina Palik
agree. I felt like there were some some more things we could have talked about for sure. I love to talk about this stuff, too. I am super passionate about all
Dan Moyer
of it. Awesome. Well give Daniel my best.
Davina Palik
Will do. Thank you so much.
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