How can you successfully relocate your business while growing your family? Today’s episode is the third in a series on parenting while running your photography business. My guest Rae Barnes shares her experience with relocating to a new state while becoming a mom to four children. We are diving into how she marketed her business in a new area, how she handled being burnt out as a mom, her thoughts on outsourcing, and more.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!
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REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES
Rae’s journey as a family photographer (2:31)
Handling a move, being a parent, and running a business (4:53)
Correcting mistakes and creating boundaries (10:38)
Day to day life as a photographer and mom (19:59)
Boundaries with messages from clients (24:22)
The value of outsourcing (30:21)
Growing your business with limited time (39:51)
Key piece of advice from Rae (47:11)
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MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: https://danielmoyercoaching.com/
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
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Dan Moyer
Hey photography friends, this is the focus photographers podcast. I’m your host, Dan Moyer. This episode is the third episode in a series on where parenting meets your photography business. If you’re a parent, you probably know what it’s like to run your business before and after kids, you have to work in totally different ways. I am a huge fan of the hustling and putting the hard work into your business to build it into something that you want it to be. But it seems that most of the advice is, especially in the business space is focused on growing your business at no cost, right? Like these stories of founder sleeping in their offices, or gym owners who are trying to build their gym sleeping in the gym, because they’re just there all the time. That’s great. But when you have kids, and you’re not trying to create some world domination company, you’re gonna be able to do it both ways. That’s why this year is aims to change the narrative and take a look at growing your business without sacrificing your mental health, your physical health and your relationships. There’s so much more in our lives and our businesses than just hitting six figures. If you’re a parent, and you’re running a photography, business, and you need some support and some structure, you are probably a good fit for one on one coaching with me where I work with photographers to grow their business without sacrificing their relationships, their physical health and their mental health. Hit me up at Danny more coaching.com You can go there, click on contact, we’ll set up a meeting and we’ll see if we’re a good fit. My guest today is Ray Barnes, this amazing family photographer outside Philadelphia. She’s a mom of four kids who has a really great story of relocating her business from another state to outside Philadelphia, and building an incredible family photography business. While parenting while being pregnant while not having any connections and how she did it. You’ll hear how she marketed her business in a new area, how she handled being burnt out as a mom, her thoughts on outsourcing and a ton more. This is my conversation with Ray Barnes.
Dan Moyer
Hey, Ray, I’m so thankful that you are here today and that the photo group Gods aligned and that we get to have this conversation because I feel like we’ve been on the periphery for a while. And I’m glad to be sitting down in front of you and talking. Yeah, thanks
Rae Barnes
for having me.
Dan Moyer
Yeah. So on your on your website, there’s this fun little thing about like your sort of timeline to where you’re at today. And it says photographers since 1997 business owners since 2004. Wife since 2005. Mom’s is 2009 mom of four since 2015. That’s that’s a lot especially considering that you’ve been photographing for so long do you want to fill us in a little bit on your journey from sort of photographer all the way up until where you’re at now?
Rae Barnes
Yeah, so um, you know, before digital cameras, I was that team that wanted to set up photoshoots for their friends and did it in our yard or in my house. And so that’s where it originated. And I pursued it in high school, ended up getting a scholarship for it and went to college for it. But totally didn’t think that I was taught in art school but and portrait photographers were the bottom of the barrel. So that was not my intent. I wanted to do something practical, maybe go into advertising. But as soon as I graduated, someone reached out to the college, I went to looking for a student photograph their wedding. And that was 2004. And by the end of 2005, I was full time wedding photographer. And then we had our first I fell happen really fast. It’s crazy, like, right place at the right time. We were up in the Adirondacks in a really small town, before blogging and Instagram or a thing. So it was just all word of mouth. So it just took off really fast. We relocated here a year after my first child was born here in the Philadelphia area, and things just transformed over that time. I stopped doing weddings two years after we moved, because I was also pregnant with our third child. That was wild. Yeah, so I ended up having four kids. I have two dogs. It’s crazy. You live on a farm? Yeah. But yeah, and I’ve shifted completely to family portraits in 2013 by the end of it that took a little bit longer for that to really take off. But I would say by the end of 2016 That was a great year and we’ve had consistent year since so and
Dan Moyer
crushing it so it’s like so you have this you know, photography or thing happening in college and you say you know what, let’s let’s make this full time and like 2004 and then and then there’s this like moment where you’re moving from the Adirondacks to outside of Philly you have more kids like and then you have to rebuild a business. That’s not weddings in a new area where you have no connections and like, that’s a lot going on. How did that time of your life? Go? And how did you handle all of that panel piling on top of each other?
Rae Barnes
It was a blur. I can’t say I handled it. Well. Our first year moving back here, we still owned a house up in the Adirondacks. And that just took forever to sell. So we were living with my in laws with a baby and then I got pregnant. And you know, so it was a whirlwind. I mean, I definitely would look back on that time, and just, I don’t even know how things played out. The timing. I didn’t do things. Well, that’s for sure. I had very little margin in my life. At that time. So yeah,
Dan Moyer
you say that you that things didn’t go well. But like, there’s there’s something in there that like, is it tenacity? Is it a desire to not give up? Like, yeah, so stubborn. Okay, let’s let’s go with that. Like, you know, did you love photography,
Rae Barnes
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, honestly. Yes. And so like I said, do some people call it grit. I like just to say, I’m a very stubborn person, and just did not want to let it go. I love photography. I, I really wanted to make it work. You know, I just didn’t want to give up. I also too, when our kids were little, I’m talking all over the place. But no, I, I was I felt very blessed eventually, by the ability to choose my schedule. So when, when our first child was born, I was very overwhelmed by that responsibility, going from working, I would work like 60 hours a week, I had no boundaries in my life at all. I would just work and work and work and work. And then once I had this baby, I couldn’t do that I had to work, you know, when the baby was being taken care of. Right? That’s all I could do. So at first, it felt like a curse. And I think over time, and I realized it was really like a blessing, you know, that I was able to choose when I would work. And so I was home with my kids. For most of the days of the week, and my mother in law took care of them one day, I would have a sitter maybe a day or two, or maybe just six hours. More than that. And I would work when the babies were sleeping. I would work at night, all night, I would work. So that’s why it felt like it was a bit of a train wreck. Like there wasn’t a whole lot of margin.
Dan Moyer
Did it? Did that cause you to be more efficient, having like having a kid now all of a sudden, you you can’t physically or mentally burn the midnight oil as much as you used to when you just like, oh, I’ll just get this done. I’ll crush it. I’ll work 60 hours a week. And now you’re like, Okay, I’ll just have to keep a human alive.
Rae Barnes
Yeah, eventually. I definitely had the burnout though. I definitely tried to stay up late. But at night, I would be exhausted. Like, how am I keeping these children alive? Right? Yeah, it definitely I. I’m someone who likes to learn from mistakes. And not that I like to it’s just how I do it. So I definitely feel like by the time I had my fourth child, I realized I had to have stricter boundaries. On my time. I had to be very intentional with every task. And that meant, okay, well, maybe it’s best for our family. If I do get a sitter for three mornings a week, you know, and get a lot done in those three hours, you know that they’re with that sitter, and then be better off from my business when I’m with my child. But it did take me years to get to that point. I was a bit of a train wreck getting there.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, I so I started in 2010. That was when I went full time. I’d like dabbled, I actually was working for another company before that. And for about four years all through college, then graduated, I lost that job because that business essentially went under. I started working in 2010. And we had our first kid in 2016. And we put her in daycare like pretty early. And I remember being like, I can’t get any work done. And she was in daycare, three days a week like all day, I can’t get the same amount of work done. So we put her in four days a week. I’m still like, I can’t get any work done. Put her in another another day because my my wife is in the corporate world. So there’s zero flexibility and I loved being full time dad and all that stuff. And I was like, Oh, I can’t do it. And then the pay Demak happened. And now all of a sudden, into 2020, all of our kids are home. And it’s like, I’m forced to do the thing. Because again, my wife’s in the corporate world, and she’s got to be on camera all the time and all this stuff. And it was really interesting. Now that I was forced to have these boundaries, like the kids are home, there’s, you can’t put them anywhere. You can’t like you. They’re babies. They’re only like six or seven months old at that point. So it’s like, how do you function in that space with, you know, with twins and all that stuff? And what I heard you say was, you’d like to learn from your mistakes, and you had to actually put boundaries around in your life. Can you take me through that? Like, like, is that self aware of you to say, Okay, I’m making this mistake, one, too, it’s self aware enough for you to say, this is a mistake. This, I need to do better that you’re actually looking at what’s happening in your life. And then adjusting course, like, what were the things that you saw that you were like, Oh, this is not going to work? This is going to burn me out or whatever? Yeah,
Rae Barnes
that’s a really great question. And I think I am actually the type of person that not that I’m so critical of myself that I can’t live with myself. But I like to be constantly looking for things that I can improve. And I think that it’s this huge, there’s just way too much pressure to have things figured out. everything figured out. There is no arriving, right? I believe that we as humans have so much work to do. And the more that you know, the more you know, you need to know, like or need to learn. I think that’s like, that’s it right? That we need to constantly be reflecting I literally was just talking to my husband yesterday, how I felt like I, I was very good with my time, up until the pandemic. And when the pandemic hits, that was going to be my year 2020 was the year that my baby was going
Dan Moyer
to. Yeah, that was my 10 year anniversary.
Rae Barnes
Oh my gosh, I was like 2020. And that’s when my baby goes to kindergarten, and I’m gonna have all four of them in school. And that’s the year I’m gonna go full time. And I went from that dream to having all four of them home all the time. And I feel like I’m, I need to read just to now they are gone. They’re all back in school. It’s like a hutch, I feel like I’ve lost that a little bit, the ability to really prioritize my time just because it’s shifted so much, right? Like, it just keeps changing. Yeah, and even this year, I set a limit myself, about my weekends that I had been giving too much of my weekends to my work. Now that my kids are in school, that’s my main time that I have with them. And the time is finite. My My oldest is in high school now. So it feels like the clock is ticking. I have three and a half years left until she goes off to college. Likely will go off to college. So I just I don’t want to give away on my weekends anymore. So that’s something that I just reevaluated this year. That was a long answer. That’s just Yeah, constantly reevaluating. What, what is burning you out, really, I mean, that’s what comes down to it. What like, if, if I’m dreading working, if I’m dreading going to work, that’s when I gave up weddings, I realized I was dreading all week long up to it. Once I got there, I loved it. But I was dreading it all week. And I realized, my couples don’t deserve this. They deserve to have someone who was so pumped all the way up to it to be there. And I realized the same thing was starting to happen with portraits, then on Saturday, I’d be at soccer field all day long with my kids. And I’m so tired. I really don’t want to go chase the two year old in the field right now. Like me, like, my clients don’t deserve that. Like, you know, maybe if I just cut back on how many weekends I do in a month, then that’ll that’ll help improve that attitude that I have. How
Dan Moyer
did you cut back though? Is that just a matter of raising your prices or adjusting how many times in a day you accept sessions or you do more like what were the variables that you adjusted to say, Okay, I’m, I’m burnout the way I’m doing things now. So I need to change to enjoying this more. Yeah.
Rae Barnes
So I’m so I’m blessed that I have a lot of return clients that come every year, maybe every two years or three years but I a large chunk of my clients come every year and I you Usually reached out to them in January February to ask them to book for the year. And in the past, I’ve given them a little incentive to do so whether that’s you get a free eight by 10, or you get three extra images in your album or, you know, whatever that it was, like, it was just like an incentive to get them booked for and it was a multiple reasons for that one, I wanted them to have their favorite date, before they got too busy and forgot about it, and I worked up. But too, I also wanted, I needed a little deposit, you know, the winters are slow season, so it helps with cash flow. So it was like a multiple benefits, there are benefits to them. And it benefits me this year, I decided, you know, I’m I really only want to do one Saturday, a month. Maybe in the fall, I might do more than one. But I’m gonna just put it out there to my clients, I’m only doing one Saturday a month, pick your month that you want to do. And, and let’s get you booked. So I never do more than two sessions in a day unless I’m doing something special. Like I generally don’t do many sessions for the general public, I will do them for return clients only. I don’t usually only once a year. So otherwise, I’m only doing one session a day, if at most two, so that really limits how many weekends and I just put that out there. And and that was a premium. There was a package that includes an album and one wall piece, because that’s what most people get from me. So it’s like you’re going to be spending this anyway, I just want you to promise that you’re going to do that again. If I’m going to give up my weekend to you. So yeah, that’s how I did it. We’re only in what March so. But you know, with new inquiries, I don’t even tell them about the premium. I just say can we get you on a weekday? Is there a way that would work for you? And I don’t even I haven’t had a weekend session yet this year. So
Dan Moyer
you know, that’s so interesting. That’s something that I’ve been doing, trying to do for a couple years where it started with just engagement sessions. And it trickled into families because I only do families for past wedding couples. And people would always ask for weekend engagements and weekend families. And it basically was like, listen, we weak afternoons and weekday evenings are way better think of your favorite park on like, a Saturday versus like a random Tuesday. Or, you know, think of like, it’s a great reason to take a half day right? My availability is so much more if you just pick an afternoon on a weekday people are like who you never thought about that? And I don’t know. Yeah, people, there hasn’t been much pushback on it. I love that. Yeah,
Rae Barnes
I mean, I more people are working from home. So for a lot of people, it’s become easier to do a weekday. The pushback I get is from you know, I have some of my return clients. They’re both doctors or surgeons. And the only day that they both are available is a weekend. So again, that’s why I was like I’m not cutting out weekends entirely. Just pick your pick your month, which month Do you want your weekend?
Dan Moyer
I love the I also really liked this, like reach out in January to schedule people for that year. So they have their favorite dates, because maybe that’s a birthday or like there’s a party or something around certain events that’s super smart, and also very proactive of you to reach out to them. Because it feels like so much marketing for photographers, especially wedding photographers is just waiting, like putting like paying to be on a registry or like posting on social media and hoping that somebody comes back to you. And I love this. Any way that I can grab the reins and be proactive.
Rae Barnes
It’s awesome. I love it. Yeah, well, and I work with a lot of very busy professionals and parents are already very busy. But if they both have busy jobs, it just before I did this, they would just end up trying to book last minute and I were to scramble to fit them then because they were great client returning clients. And I just didn’t think that was good for either of us. So I am that is one thing I can say that I’m pretty good at is being proactive and reaching out. Hopefully I don’t bug them too much. But I do understand they’re busy. And I’m busy too, you know, and so is my husband and so emails and texts sometimes just get ignored. So I do follow up. Yeah.
Dan Moyer
So now now your kids are all you have four kids, how old are they all now?
Rae Barnes
So two of them are about to have birthdays, so I’ll just round up there. But 911 13 and 15 911 1315
Dan Moyer
Got it. So what does life look like for you. Now like, you’re obviously running a photography business. And you’re, you know, a mom, and you’re trying to balance all that stuff like what does regular life look like now? Yeah, it’s crazy.
Rae Barnes
Like a cab driver, right? Facts. Some one client last summer told me they’re like, Oh yeah, the first 10 years you spend at home the second 10 years you’ve spent in the car. And then the third 10 years, you just spend worrying, like, Oh, great. Okay. But there’s some truth to that, right? Yeah, so so it’s crazy, but my kids are in school all day. So I do have a chunk from 830 to maybe 330. Where my all of my kids are out of the house. Once 330 hits, it’s insane. My husband works remotely, but his his he works for Zillow. And they’re based on the west coast. So he has to, unfortunately, he doesn’t have to work past five, but he has to be on between one and five, like those are their meeting hours. So when our kids come home at 330, I have to be on. So I that’s that’s my window to work is 830 to 330 and other than shoots, and if I’m working with teachers, that teachers are the only profession that I do evening meetings with. Otherwise, all my meetings are during work hours for me. Oh,
Dan Moyer
man, interesting. So you’d like a lot of ones around like lunchtime and that kind of things?
Rae Barnes
Yeah. Or like I said, a lot of my loyal clients are doc doctors and surgeons, they might they might have a weekday off that they always get Tuesdays off or always get Wednesday’s off. And so I just meet with them on their day off.
Dan Moyer
Oh, wow. What’s it? So that’s what’s like the the average, can you like run me through like sort of your average day and how you have sort of broken down the things you’re doing during that, that time where you need to be on in your business to like, make sure that you are because that it’s really difficult. I think for a lot of photographers when to have this like rigid boundary, because they know that like the office is right there. And like I can just hop in there and do something later or I can whatever it’s how do you feel like you’ve got enough done that you can shut down at 330? And be present with your kids? Yeah,
Rae Barnes
so the the answer to that is twofold. So one, I am very low volume, I a very busy month for me is six clients, very busy. But I also meet with my clients three or four times. So so you can multiply it. So I keep my volume low. But I also set up expectations pretty well with my clients of what they can expect from me and the time like they can expect it. And so I also never, unless I have to answer a text or email outside those hours. And even recently, I got a text from a client who wants to book something that summer. And she texted me on Saturday. And she was like, I know it’s the weekend. You don’t have to reply to this until Monday. But I just wanted to do this. She just knew and that it’s not that I’ve ever told her. I don’t answer texts on weekends. It’s just that I don’t. And she’s realized that. And I think that’s really important. I mean, we’re the we’re the gatekeepers of our schedule, right? Like, we may feel like our clients are our boss, because they’re paying us but they’re not. And we have to be careful to set our own grace and make sure that it’s working. I mean, work is ultimately not the most important thing in life. Nobody on their deathbed says they wish is more, right. They wish they saw their family more so that I just had to remind myself of that. And I think that switch really came when I had my first baby, you know, like going from being able to work unlimited hours to being very limited to Okay, who’s watching the baby right now? There’s
Dan Moyer
a lot of questions that I had in there. I think the thing that struck me is the ability to when you know somebody needs something from you, like on a weekend you see like a client text message you or something. I actually love it when my clients text messaged me. I know that’s a hard boundary for some people. They didn’t want their clients to have their phone number. I think I’m in the same boat or it’s like I’d like somebody to text message me, but it does eat at me sometimes if on the weekend. If I know that somebody’s waiting for a response from me was was it ever like that for you? Or is it just Nope, this is my hard and fast boundary. And my clients know that and and they can, whatever they can just deal with it.
Rae Barnes
Yeah, I think that that boundary came along, probably when, when we did have our fourth child, like, I don’t think I was great. And part of that, too, is me just realizing my limitations. Because I was working a lot. Like, when the kids were asleep before then I wasn’t, I didn’t have super regular business hours. So you know, people were getting emails from me at 930 at night, because that’s when I could, but once I realized I really needed to allow myself more space, whether that was, you know, like, I did find like an in home daycare for my youngest, while my third child was in preschool, you know, and I would just put her in there for like, three hours. And that’s when I would answer it. And I just, I just sent those boundaries myself, and unless it’s like, someone died, and I need a picture right now, you know, like, I will, I will do that at 1030. If I see that on my phone. And it’s not that I’m not checking, like, that’s a compulsion, right? To just have to see why people are emailing you, or, you know, or texting you, but, but I’ve realized that if I allow myself to answer that, after hours, then that tell communicates to my client that I’m available whenever so then they’ll get irritated? If they have a simple question. And I don’t answer it quickly. Because I’ve always done it in the past. So I think it’s just, you know, setting that routine up. Whether it’s spoken or not, you know, to not always be on I don’t want to be glued to my I mean, your phone as the phone is so addictive. I don’t want to have to be glued to it to try to please other people, you know, yeah,
Dan Moyer
yeah, there was a previous episode to the in this series with a friend of mine, Myles wood Boyer. And he was saying like something similar. He’s like, Yeah, you know, it’s hard at first, but he’s like, I also set priorities with my clients that like, they are a priority, but they’re not the priority. And like, if, if when your wedding planning and you’re, you know, late at night, and you’re thinking, Oh, do I like Perry Winkle, or lavender bridesmaids dresses, and you want my opinion, like, great text message me that, but know that I’m either asleep, and my phone is turned off? Or you know, at the soonest I’ll get back to in the morning? I think that’s it’s such a thing with us that we because our business is us that we just think like, we just want to, we have to do all the stuff and be readily available. And like, I wonder if all entrepreneurs are this way, like is a plumber this way where they get a text? And they’re like, Oh, I got to respond to Joe about his toilet or whatever. Yeah,
Rae Barnes
I’m sure it’s something that everybody struggles with. I really do. I think when you run a business, you’re you want to take care of it. Right. And I think we quickly go to that place where we think that if we don’t answer this right away, they’re gonna move on to somebody else. be unhappy with me, you know, I’ve just I’ve just, I’ve, I’ve had to just work off of my burnout, like, what’s burning me out right now. And just being always on is totally burns me out. I just can’t, I can’t keep up with that. And if a potential client is reaching out and needs an immediate answer, and they move on to someone who responds quicker than maybe they just weren’t the right. client for me, you know? Yeah.
Dan Moyer
That was a pretty powerful notion that you just said, I’m working off my burnout. I really think that that requires a level of self awareness that it has to be cultivated over a period of time did that self awareness and like working off of your burnout? Was that something you always had? Was it heightened by your by having children cuz you said, you know, around your third kid is when you start saying, this was this was too much for me, I need to make some serious changes here.
Rae Barnes
I don’t know if this like a personality type thing of me. But I have been told for a very long time, as long as I can remember that I’m very self aware person. And I think I was you know, strangely, even in high school. Right, when you’re most people aren’t, but I do think it’s a gift to have that self awareness. But I also think it can be cultivated, I do think that people can, can work on that and I think that you can really like take the lead of like, what are you what tasks are you procrastinating or what? What is giving you like, heart palpitations? What is making your blood pressure rise? Like all of those things you just have to listen to? And realize, like, maybe that’s something I don’t need to do? Or maybe that’s something I need to pay someone else to do.
Dan Moyer
So it sounds like there might be some outsourcing and delegating in your business. Definitely.
Rae Barnes
Yeah, um, I, you know, I think I mentioned it earlier that I just told my husband, I was better at this before the pandemic, but before the pandemic hit, I did have just still had one kid at home and three kids in school. And so I had very specific small windows to work really was working probably 12 hours a week, like that’s how little I was working might have been 15. But so I had a virtual assistant that answered my phones for me, because I didn’t want to only be available to answer the phone at certain times. Or for only those 12 hours a week. I had so many answers, that same person, answer your emails. For me, I had an editor, I had an, like a client, or like a studio manager. Like, even though I don’t have a studio, this is my office, but she would open the boxes that came in, inspect them, tie them up with a ribbon, package them deliver them if they were small enough, or just schedule a delivery with me, you know, like, so I had people doing all these things, and then the pandemic hit and things stopped. And most of those things went to the wayside. But in a great way it like also taught me like, okay, maybe I can take some of those things back. Maybe I don’t need to be outsourcing all this. Maybe I even enjoy some of these things. And so I’m like, somewhere in between now. It’s like the great. I do you have some help? Yeah, I mean, the great thing is my the woman who’s my studio manager before the pandemic, she’s, she’s, she works part time. She’s also a mom of four. And she’s just available when I need her not at that exact time. I know, I have to give her some notice that like my dad passed away last October. And I took three weeks off during the busiest month of the year. And all I had to do because she knew all of my systems and everything was just tell her, please reschedule my sessions for me tell people why reschedule the meetings that are on my calendar help people why, here’s, here’s what I’ve got available in November. And she just took care of it. And that was such an amazing thing. Like, just like, I just can’t imagine if I’ve had to work through that. It just it would have been a train wreck, and there would have been really unhappy people. So
Dan Moyer
yeah, yeah, there’s that outsourcing thing. I think. Let’s stay on that. Because I think this is interesting. Did you have the money to outsource? Or did you say I need to outsource so I can continue to grow because I think a lot of us are waiting until we have the money to outsource or to you know, editing or whatever it is. But I think if you wait to have the money, you’re just never gonna have it.
Rae Barnes
Like you’re never gonna have it. Never gonna have it. You have this, this is part of my battle. So when we moved here in 2010 childcare, right, that was my big thing. It was way more expensive here than it was in our small little town in the Adirondacks. And I didn’t know people that could watch that I would trust it. So even a nanny situation. So I had very limited and I just caught stuck in that you know that we’re like, I don’t have the money to do this. Everything’s so expensive here my husband’s without we’re just making good money, but it’s not good money here. And so I got trapped in that and felt like I don’t have the money to pay for more child care. And it severely limited me now. In retrospect, I don’t regret that at all. Like at the time it felt a little bit debilitating. But now I look back at them very thankful I had those years where I didn’t have them and daycare all the time. But, but you know now like with the outsourcing I mean, so that isn’t outsourcing, right? Outsourcing childcare. Right? So, but once I started realizing, you know, not only can I pay someone to watch my child for me, I can pay someone to do this at $20 An hour or whatever their rate was, and save the expensive tasks for myself, I will be able to book more clients. So when I was working 12 hours a week, you know, if it was if I was trying to do everything, I probably couldn’t have four clients in a month, like I probably couldn’t have managed that. Just because of how hands on I am with my clients through the process. But because I hired help, I was able to, and that increase my revenue in the end, but it is a leap of faith, right to say, big time. I’m just gonna do this.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, that’s what, that’s what I did. Obviously, with editing, like everybody, the first thing they do is they outsource their editing. But like a huge leap of faith was outsourcing this podcast editing, because I was super infrequent with it, I would like I wasn’t doing as much as I should have. And then finally, I found my podcast editor, Gaffin, creative shout out, Haley, Megan, you know, and I can just like I edit this, and then I send it to them, and they handle the rest of it. And it’s the greatest feeling, knowing that somebody who’s a professional at editing the podcast, that sounds the best and also fight, you know, this is this is a step on the path that I want to go that putting out this podcast in the places that I think is going to lead me. And I just had to take it as a leap of faith that like I need to spend this money every month to have this podcast done for me so I can do the other things that really require my attention that I’m, you know, an actual expert in? Yeah,
Rae Barnes
absolutely. And you know, what outsourcing helped me do also was really realizing how, how much I needed to be charging, like, realizing, okay, well, I was under charging before I outsource everything, because I was doing everything, and I wasn’t keeping track of my time. But when you’re paying someone else to do it, you have to track all of those expenses, right? You have to track. Okay, well, it’s gonna cost me X amount of dollars to have them edit this session that’s going in this album, so I need to make sure there’s my fee for my time, and they’re paid for their time, and then the cost of the album and you know, so you just end up realizing how much you’re, you’re you need to be charging. And I think that’s something that a lot of photographers struggle with, is undervaluing their time, because they’re not really keeping track. I mean, who times themselves? I mean, I did, but most on how long it takes them to do things, right.
Dan Moyer
I mean, I did nerd alert. Yeah. Wow. That sounds like do you know Mike Warby. He’s, he’s in that space of constantly, like he, I took a workshop with him. And he was really great, because we run our businesses very differently. But I definitely learned the like art of tracking your time and being productive and paying attention to the little pieces of friction in your, in your life and in your business. Like he had this spreadsheet that was like, how many images did you take? What was the calling time? How many images came out of that call? You know, what was the editing time for that? And it’s all these things, then you get percentages, and you’re getting faster? And I was like, Yeah, that’s actually a really interesting thing. So I did that for a couple months. And it’s okay, I’m actually wasting a lot of time here. Because when you do sit down, and I’ve got this little cube thing that I have that can flip my time to see how much time I have things called the Pomodoro method where you like, have a specific period, a period of time a specific at work effort. And that’s not something that I did. I’m a feeler I just sort of like go off of my energy levels and whatever want to call it. And yeah, over the last, like, you know, since basically having kids I was like, I, I think I alluded to this before, but when I was when my daughter was in school for five days, and I couldn’t get the work done quote, and then all of a sudden, now they are all now they all three kids are home in their home all day. It’s like okay, you have to be efficient now. Where is my time waster? What’s what’s sucking my time? And it’s Oh, yeah, it’s I unconsciously look at my phone all the time or switch tabs and that yeah, all day. Yeah. So, so we talked a little about where you’re at now, I want to just go back kind of briefly into that into the den of of madness when you first had you know, you know, first one or two kiddos, and you’re building your business and all that kind of stuff. What, when your time was so limited in what you could do and you’re in this new place, what did you do to grow your business? for you getting out and going to networking events, were you talking to different magazines in the area or going to different shows and setting up booths? Like, how did you grow your business during that period of time as a family photographer transitioning from weddings? And still, you know, dude, the mom thing?
Rae Barnes
Yeah, I wish I have a great answer for you. I’m an, I’m an introvert. And so the idea of, yeah, it surprises some people, but I’m very introverted. I’m just like, if you had a spectrum, I might be like, 80 to 90%. I like people, they just tire me out. Yeah, so going to networking events. I definitely did try stuff like that. But I didn’t try that until my youngest was sleeping through the night probably. It definitely took me some time. So, you know, when we moved to the area, I had a one year old and was soon pregnant with our second. And during that time, I, I mean, that was a while. That was 14 years ago. But I do remember feeling well. I mean, naturally, when you move to an area, you need to plug into a community, like even introverts need people, you know, so plugging into our church, or like some mom groups or just trying to meet bull, and naturally because I had a baby or toddler, I met other parents, with children of the similar age. So you know, it was a very slow growth, though, I mean, completely honest. I don’t think I have much place to give advice to people on how to grow in a new market. Because I just I realized living with my in laws, which they’re fantastic people, but it’s still living with your in laws, and being pregnant and having a one year old. And it wasn’t just living with my in laws. My husband’s grandfather also lived there. And his uncle came twice a week and his brother was there was like, this huge meant multigenerational, you know, so it was just exhausting. So I just, you know, I think it was really, I had the luck of the draw of just being in the same or similar demographic of who I was trying to reach. Things would have looked differently if I already had teenagers when we moved.
Dan Moyer
But I think there’s something in that though, of you did still get out. Like, you know, you went to a faith community, you found some mom groups, and I’m assuming that there was some kind of soft sell in there. Somebody’s like, Oh, what do you do? Right? And you’re like, Well, yeah, I am a baby, family photographer. You can’t you weren’t shying away from that opportunity. Yeah, like there’s definitely I also
Rae Barnes
was generous when we moved here with my time. So I did donate my time to certain nonprofits or charities or I looked for silent auctions to donate to. So
Dan Moyer
I knew it. I knew there was something in there.
Rae Barnes
I started thinking I’m like, oh, no, I didn’t do that. I definitely donate. Because that felt safer to me than going to a networking event that actually just had all realtors, you know? Right? Yeah. So yeah, I was generous with my time and talent. When we first moved, and I did even point towards people that I that I wanted to give sessions to also so like, I think I did have a drawing or something. What one point the first year we moved here just to try out some new venues because all of my family portraits had mountains in the background. I had to get something. Um, yeah. So but yeah, that was that was probably my biggest thing was donating to those charities and photographing people that maybe couldn’t afford my services otherwise. Yeah.
Dan Moyer
That’s really interesting. Because I remember like when I first started out, I remember like, one of the first clients I got was literally standing in line at a pizza shop. And I just I’m very in tune for when women have engagement rings on that’s at least the most obvious way to see it. And they were talking about something and turns out, they were getting married, like that weekend, like that Sunday. And I was like, oh, have you found your photographer yet? And they were like, Oh, the groom was in the Marines and he was going off to do his thing. And so they were having like this really speedy service on I think Saturday. And then Sunday, they’re like, can we do like a little session with you, they literally, there’s like a Wednesday, Thursday, they contacted me and then told me, and that’s like I, from that one session, I like created an album from it. And this was like, literally day one. And then everything else was was very much about connecting with my network, the individuals who like I went to college with and high school with. And this is obviously different than you because you were coming from a, you know, another state into here. But I just feel like, there’s less of this hustle now in terms of like getting in front of people and actually connecting with individuals in your community. And more about like, let me just put up the Instagram or let me put up a Facebook page or whatever and share my that I’m a photographer. And there’s less about the who are the people in my area that need photos, let me go out and meet them and say that I’m doing many sessions will say whatever, rather than just like, Oh, I’m going to run an ad in my stories, that I’m doing many sessions on this day, and then nobody bites. It’s like, well, there’s no connection with the individuals in your actual community. Right, you would serve in this area? Totally.
Rae Barnes
Yeah. I mean, there’s just so much noise in social media, right? People are constantly being bombarded with ads, and the ads are like crazy. Now you get them like every other post. And so even if it’s a real person posting an deal for many sessions, like your example, they’re gonna just think as another ad, they’re just go scroll through and people want to purchase from people that they know. And like, and trust, right? I’m sure everybody’s heard that before. But it’s true. You know, I, yeah, like I can probably pinpoint almost all of my best clients, like might have come from someone else that I knew, or from another client. Not not to say that, like, ads don’t have their space. I also get great clients from Google ads, but but there has to be some connection there for people to really buy in, really. Okay.
Dan Moyer
So as we wrap up today, like all of the conversation we’ve had about kids and marketing your business and building it, and you know, starting over again, and stuff, if there’s one thing that if there’s a parent that’s like in the thick of it, and I hear from a lot of parents who are, you know, they have a two year old now, and they’re starting to get sort of back to where they can sort of do things in their business. If there’s anything that you could say to them, individuals that are in that thick of it, what advice would you give them,
Rae Barnes
there’s seasons in life, right. And I think our culture glorifies busy. And there was a long time there where I was working part time, I’m still working part time hours, even though I don’t have to. And I was embarrassed for a long time, but I wasn’t working more. That was probably self inflicted a little bit, but it’s also the whole glorification of being busy and, and pressure to live up to some stranger’s standards, right? You can run a really great solid business part time, and it doesn’t, you don’t have to outsource everything in order to do it. And, and try not to rush through the seasons. I feel like if I had, if I could tell myself that 10 years ago, I would bet that there is going to come a season where they are out of the house, there’s gonna come a season when they’re moved out of the house, you know, there’s seasons, and we have there’s, there’s a place and a time for everything. And really, you have to pay attention to what is most important to you. And try not to rush through the seasons.
Dan Moyer
Do I hear in there that like you work part time? It’s like, what’s the saying? It’s like, full time salary on part time work? Is that have you just optimized your business so that way, it’s like, you get paid what? You know, really well, but you’re only working these like small amount of hours? Yeah,
Rae Barnes
yeah. Um, yeah, I would say that. I think obviously, I had to raise my prices, incredibly. But I also had to increase my service to my clients. So we’re very low volume, high touch, I meet with my clients a minimum of three times in order, you know, to complete the whole process. And it’s, for me, it’s more efficient to work to meet with a client three times than to have three clients. And that’s basically the amount of money that they they invest in my services is about three times what it used to be when I was just seeing them burn or whatever. So, yeah,
Dan Moyer
you love it. Okay, where can anybody who’s listening just Follow along, find out more about you and see your pictures and all that kind of stuff.
Rae Barnes
Yeah, um, well, I’m kind of terrible on social media. Let’s be honest, I have to be efficient with my time. And I sometimes feel like that’s always my time, but I am on Instagram, Ray Barnes photo ray with any Barnes with any, that’s, that’s the one place that I do fairly consistently show up and I tend to disappear sometimes for a week at a time. So I
Dan Moyer
feel that that’s all good. Well, this was incredibly informative, and I’m super thankful for your candidness and just being willing to show up on this without any like, thought about, like, you know, what we were going to talk about or like, what kind of questions I was gonna have. And you are awesome. This is super great and super helpful.
Rae Barnes
Yeah, of course. Thanks, Dan. I really appreciate it was nice talking to you. Thank you.
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