How can you effectively manage your business through the chaos of parenthood? Today’s episode is part of a larger series on parenting while running your photography business. My guest Jackie Stinsman shares her experience of being a mom of three while running her business for over a decade.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!
Subscribe on Your Favorite Podcast Player
REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES
How to handle all of the stuff (2:11)
Having your first kid while being a business owner (5:55)
Discovering your own work/life balance (10:41)
How to turn off from the business (14:46)
Creating and maintaining organization (18:05)
The work has to give you something (22:43)
Photography Business Mastery for Moms (27:18)
Working with a lack of schedule (30:36)
Hiring and trusting a virtual assistant (32:21)
Common struggles for mom entrepreneurs (41:59)
Habits through the seasons of life and business (49:03)
One last piece of advice (55:48)
Connect with Jackie (1:03:44)
CONNECT WITH JACKIE
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: https://danielmoyercoaching.com/
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
REVIEW IN APPLE PODCASTS
This podcast is about giving to others in knowledge, joy, insight, and (*hopefully*) humor. You can help too! The more reviews and ratings in Apple Podcasts, the higher the Focused Photographers Podcast will rank and ultimately the more people will listen to it. So if you’re getting value from this podcast, will you consider leaving a rating on Apple Podcasts? Just click below!
LEAVE A RATING IN APPLE PODCASTS!
Thank you!
-Dan
Review the Transcript:
Dan: Hey, photographer friends. Welcome to the Focus Photographers podcast where photographers gather. This episode today is just a feel good, fun episode that is so insightful, so thoughtful. Um, it’s a little bit all over the place and I sort of love it that way. Uh, but my guest Jackie Stinsman is sort of a renaissance woman in the sense that she is, you know, So busy with all these different facets of her life between, um, her three kids.
Uh, she’s married. Um, she has this business that is thriving that she calls her first baby. And I love her approach to this. She loves the chaos. She loves, um, this packed schedule. And you can hear her just excitement about how to put all these pieces together. And, uh, her latest effort over the last couple of years is helping other moms Be able to do the things more than just family life and more than just business, but put those things together in ways that really fulfill them and teach them how to run businesses while being moms, which is literally what this whole entire series is about.
This episode is part of a larger series called where parenting meets your business. And it’s all about, um, there’s so much effort and content out there about how to grow your business and how to, you know, hustle and all that kind of stuff, but not a lot for us parents who. Don’t have all the time in the world to just burn the midnight oil and, you know, work on our businesses all hours of the day.
We have to be organized. We have to be focused. And that’s what this episode is about. It’s a really great feel good episode. It’s a very insightful episode. It’s an actionable episode, and I’m so grateful to be bringing it to you. So here’s my conversation with Jackie Stinsman.
Welcome Jackie. I am super thrilled that you’re here. Um, this like was very serendipitous. We’re in this, um, Uh, photography community together. And I was like thinking of people who specialize in this and work in this parenting, uh, uh, this parenting zone, but we’re also very busy and managed to balance it all.
And so I’m just really glad that you are here.
Jackie: Thank you so much. I’m really excited to be here.
Dan: Yeah. You have, you’re just do everything like you’re part. Well, you’re a full time mama. You’re, um, uh, you know, family and, and portrait photographer and newborns. Um, you also have a. Uh, a, uh, photography business mastery for mom’s group that does group coaching and you’re working on a course for that and you have your own podcast and you’re doing all the things.
How do you handle all of that stuff? And you’re smiling about it too. And you’re like happy. Like, uh,
Jackie: it’s, it’s, you know what? I never really thought of it altogether. It’s a lot. It really is. I don’t know, truly, honestly, scheduling. I schedule so much. I outsource so much. Um, that’s one thing that I feel like a lot of moms and smaller photography businesses, like I can never outsource.
You absolutely can. That’s a big thing. Um, I have an editor. I have a VA. I have an in studio assistant. Yeah. And I have another photographer, well, two photographers that shoot for me. One is more frequent. The other one is more like summer. Yeah. So there’s a lot of people helping in the background. I am not a one man show here and I am totally fine saying that out loud.
Dan: Yeah. Okay. So wait, yeah, but, but like you also have two people who work for you though. So you’re there, you’re like, you’re still boss lady at the top, right? Like that’s, that’s a lot to also manage photographers and, and manage a VA and like all that. Like. Like, okay, let’s, let’s back way, way, way, way, way up to when do you want to take it back to, to when you, does you have kids before business or, or during business?
Well, how did that happen?
Jackie: Long story short, I worked in healthcare as an MRI technologist full time. And I realized that that just was not the track for me. My husband and I knew that we wanted to have a large family. We have three kids now. I think that’s it. I always say, you know, you never know, but I do think the chaos is like ensuing much right now because the baby’s eight months and it’s just, it’s crazy.
So
Dan: three kids ages, what ages, what again?
Jackie: Six and eight months. So
Dan: eight, six, eight months. Okay. Yes. It’s
Jackie: crazy. Got it.
Dan: Okay. Continue. And,
Jackie: um, so I started my business. I worked full time for about two and a half years and my goal was to be full time in my business. By year three. And I was about to have my first son on year three.
So then it just was like working in the business, not technically full time, but not full time hours. If that makes sense. I think a lot of people kind of think, Oh, I have to work 40 hours in my business to be full time, but you don’t. You know, especially as a parent, um, and an entrepreneur. I mean, who wants to, we leave full time hours to not work full time hours.
Right.
Dan: Right.
Jackie: So, um, then it just kind of built from there. Um, the pandemic hit of course, and it slowed down a little bit, but that was my first year I hit six figures, which is crazy in the pandemic. 2020. I was shocked. I
Dan: hit
Jackie: 104, 000 in sales and I was like, no,
Dan: get it girl.
Jackie: So it has just been building ever since.
And then 2021, I brought on three employees at that time. One left just because she was going back to New York city. She was just a temporary job. And then we built from there. And then the photographer. Yeah. Tricia came on in April of 2022, I think it was now. So she’s with me two years now. The new one will be starting this summer, doing a lot of summer and beach and mini sessions out from June to August we have her scheduled.
So it’s a lot. Wow. Okay.
Dan: Okay. So you’re saying that you were in business for a couple of years, then you had your first son. Mm-Hmm. . What was that like when you had your first kiddo? Because that’s a, that’s a. Interesting moment when you want to do both, right? Like you want to do the business thing and you want to do the mom thing, but there’s a lot of, uh, stigma and a lot of stereotype and a lot of like pressure of like, you can’t do both, especially, I mean, I, you know, obviously that I don’t, unfortunately, I don’t get that.
And I’m very fortunate because I’m just a straight white dude who like. You know, I don’t, I don’t see like my wife and I talk about this kind of stuff all the time. And I don’t see that side of things, right? Like it’s easy for me to, to just like, I worked harder when my kids were born, but you, you have a different perspective.
And so I’m curious about that. Like when first kid was born, you’ve got a business that’s gaining momentum. Now, all of a sudden this huge change comes of a kid. What was that inner monologue? What was the conversation like with your husband and all the, all that stuff?
Jackie: Yeah. So like I said, My husband, he grew up with a mom who was a stay at home mom.
So he didn’t really expect me to work full time hours. I tried the stay at home mom and not working as much, and I am just not a good stay at home mom. I’m not, I admit that. I need that adult interaction. I love that self awareness. Yeah, I realized that I was like, I don’t know if it was postpartum depression, not talking to other adults, but like when we would go to Sunday Church, I would be like yapping along with my sister-in-laws and our friends at church.
And then it was like, I feel so energized from this. And then I would get home Sunday night and be like, I don’t wanna be here. Right, exactly. So I realized that I need to be out with people. I need to talk to people. Still love my son. I still come home every night and put him to bed all the kids. I put to bed still So but yeah, it’s uh it I realized that I didn’t want to work full time hours and I really again scheduled So I would schedule I think it was tuesdays and thursdays He would go to my sister in law for about three to four hours And I would either work on the back end of business or I work with a client Um, I also opened, this is another crazy thing.
I opened my first studio with a friend of mine, like a physical location. So he was born October, 2016, and we opened that December, 2016.
Dan: My gosh, Jackie, goodness gracious.
Jackie: So, and then I kind of moved around and then moved to a space by myself in 20. 17 and I remember I’ll never forget. Um, I said to my husband cause it was, that was to do it by myself.
It was a full like thousand dollars a month rent. And I had just enough in my savings to pay the whole year if I did no clients. And I said to my husband, I was like, well, what if I’m pregnant? Cause like we were trying, but not trying. And we had trouble with the first one. So it was like, it’s not going to happen right away.
And of course it happened right away. And I was like three weeks into my leaves and found out I was pregnant. And here I am crying to him. What am I going to do? Oh my gosh. And he was like, it’s okay. Just it, this is a season of life. It’s okay. We’ll figure it out. And it worked out. And, um, then. Yeah.
Pandemic hit after that and just kept going.
Dan: I want to go back to something. I want to go back to something that you said before that resonates with me because, um, I’m somebody who I, I know what it’s like for 10 plus years to have my only focus was my business, right? I started my business January 1st, 2010 and, and my, if I’m honest, my business was my only priority after kids were born.
And even like, I paid a lot of lip service to work life balance and stuff. And I, I definitely, um, am very, uh, open about displaying irrational amounts of affection on my wife and, and my kids and stuff. But I, my only priority was money. My only priority was my business. And you said this thing about, you know, I crave, Connection.
I create, uh, crave people. And you, that stayed home mom thing was not going to work for you. And it’s funny. It’s like, I thought, you know what? I did the whole business thing for 10 years and, and that I made the most money I ever did in 2019. I made a stupid amount of money and, and I was not happy. Like, uh, I wasn’t happy.
I, uh, by all intents and purposes, like our industry says, if you make six figures, you should be super happy. And so I let the pendulum swing in the opposite direction of I’m going to be all about family. And I thought that was the answer. I’m going to, it’s going to be all about family. I’m just going to do that.
I’m going to focus all there, but I’m, I feel like I’m in very akin to what you said is, There’s this, there’s more than just family and there’s more than just work. There’s this like little bit in the middle where I love my family. I’m prioritizing them way more now than I ever have alongside my business goals.
And I like how you’re just like, I crave that connection. I’m at my church and I’m with these people and I’m with my sister in laws or whatever, and I love them. Can you talk a little bit more about that? Where you were like, you know what? I’m, I’m not going to do the stay at home mom thing. I’m going to, I’m going to go after my passion and be around people and all that stuff.
Jackie: Yeah. I just feel like I worked so hard on the business for all of those years that I didn’t want to just give it all up. And being a mom is a full time job as we know, but I will say having that separation between business and family. Like this, talking to somebody else, having a conversation is gonna energize me to do something in my podcast tomorrow.
I don’t think I could be just that . Everything is perfect at home. Homesteading, that’s the word. I wanna, oh yeah. I wanna get,
Dan: that’s a thing. I wanna
Jackie: get there, but I’m not like 100% making my own bread, making my own milk. Chicken’s in the backyard. My husband wants to me. Right. But I just can’t and I’m getting there because next year I’ll be homeschooling my two older boys as well.
Cool so it’s like prioritizing a lot for my family, but also having that time to myself because Essentially my business is my first baby. I did so much for This business to build it so that it could start to be a recurring revenue Four years to come and now we’re over 10 years into it. And You I can’t just give it straight up.
You know what I mean?
Dan: Yeah. You said, you said this separation between work and your business, um, that your business is your first baby. Can you, can you elaborate on that, that war, that separation between work and business and how you define that?
Jackie: I would say boundaries is the biggest thing for me this year.
I have been guilty of this for many, many years and I’ve had the, I know I’ve had the computer on like the nightstand right next to me working as the kids sleeping in the middle of the bed. Like, and while I know there are seasons of life for that, I am way too anxious when that is in that season. And I realized I need to separate it.
So like, I used to do, uh, before my kids were in sports, like this year, they’re really into sports. So we have a lot of practices and games and stuff. But before they were into this, I would do like every weekday at seven o’clock, a zoom or a design consultation with a client or working at seven o’clock.
Well, now it’s only on Tuesdays and Thursdays because practice is Monday and Wednesday, and I tried. Eight 30 zoom after we get home at seven 30 and it is just chaos. So I’m just like, I’m not doing it anymore. Am I guilty of answering a text message for our client? That is a quick question. Absolutely. My business is definitely more customer service oriented, where it’s like, I’m as available as possible.
And I will answer them if it’s like a full day of being home with kids and running errands and everything morning and night, I’ll check my emails. But I definitely, um, I never want to give up the business aspect because I just, I, it is my first baby. I love doing it. It makes me so happy and don’t get me wrong.
I hate it in December when it’s Santa season. I’m regretting doing 13 days of Santa, but, but like I said, different seasons of life during the year.
Dan: Yeah. You said, you said about like, you have a full day of like running the kids around and all that kind of stuff. I, what’s always really interesting to me is I’ll have some, my wife is in the corporate world, so not much flexibility.
Um, she’s always been in the corporate world. She’s at a job now where she’s working from home and all that, but she’s on camera. She’s, and she’s also doing things where she’s calling people. She’s like a case manager for workers comp or something like that. Um, and she’s calling people. So it, it’s on me, right?
Like I get the kids up, I get them to school. I do breakfast, I do lunches. I, you know, pick up Henry and Regina from their daycare Monday, Wednesday, Friday, like drop them off at nine, pick them up at 12. So some days I’m like. Dan is crushing this. Like I’m doing the things I’m answering emails. I got up early.
I exercise, right? Like, and I’m just like smoking this, like kid, you want fruit snacks. Boom. You got fruit snacks. Like, like you get it. And then the next day it’s the total freaking opposite. And I’m like, I can’t do anything. So I’m wondering when you have those days where it’s like, you’ve got this full day, you’re standing on a full day of being Uber driver to your kids.
How do you, how do you feel like you’ve got enough done to be able to turn off and hang out with them and be present with them?
Jackie: It’s tough. Don’t get me wrong. I feel like when I do more, I feel more successful personally as well. So like the, so the best example was actually yesterday. So like yesterday, um, I was doing a preschool portraits for, this was day two of preschool portraits.
So it was. Up at 630 kids are breakfast at 7. We’re out the door by 745 I do have a nanny that comes two days a week for the baby.
Dan: Cool.
Jackie: So she comes around 730 She’s such a big help and then we leave by 730. I dropped them off at 8 There was a presentation at school at 830, but technically I had to be at the portrait place by 9 So I had to get my mom to come to help Make sure that she was there for breakfast.
So I saw the award. I left, I went to portraits. That was nine 15 to about 12 o’clock. Stopped to grab lunch, came home, downloaded. She ended at two 30 and then pick the boys up at three, brought them home early dinner, then it was five o’clock practice. And then. Six o’clock practice for the second one while I’m still taggling.
It’s bringing along the baby. Baby has to come everywhere we go. And then we’re home by seven 30 and it was full dinner. Luckily I’m a big, like crock pot and like tacos, tacos, super easy for me. Um, I can set that up in the morning and just let that go. And then it was. Uh, showers and bedtime and we were in bed by like eight 30, but it’s so regimented.
Like my boys know, okay. Okay. Timer goes off for four 30, uh, homework. If we’re home at that time, you have to get your homework done. Um, I think it’s good to have that kind of like schedule for them at a young age too, because then they know what’s coming next. If they don’t know what’s coming next, they’re going chaotic in the basement, playing video games and doing their boy stuff, like just go down in the basement, just go.
Yeah. They’re they’re on the schedule too. So they know, okay. Monday, Wednesdays practices. You got to come home, do your homework, get your early dinner, and then we’re off. So. I love having a schedule like that and I definitely thrive on that type of schedule. When the nanny was off for vacation three weeks ago, um, she only comes two days a week, but still like it’s a big whole week of me not actually working sessions in the studio.
Um, so I would work at night. I would do a bunch of zooms and work in the evening until his like first feeding around 10 o’clock. And, um, It during the day, it was like, well, I don’t have a chaotic schedule right now. So I don’t know what to do. I like thrive off the chaos. It’s crazy. I don’t know if that’s just my brain and how it goes.
So like two of the days, I was like, you know what? I’m going to relax for once. And I’m actually going to sit here and watch my shows. And I read a book
Dan: last
Jackie: time I read a book was like years ago. I’m normally like an audio book person now, but yeah, it was like, I, took some self care time during that time, I guess you could call it.
And then I was able to get back into the schedule once the nanny came back in.
Dan: So I’m actually curious of, like, you say you thrive in chaos and you love this and you’ve got all these different things going on and you’ve got your, uh, kids on a schedule and all that. Um, is this something that you have always been, uh, like there’s always just been part of you or have you cultivated that and been organized all the time or how have you worked through that?
Or refined it maybe is a better question.
Jackie: Definitely refined it. I think it’s me also, I feel like, and this is not a testament against my parents, but I feel like I grew up very early and was very mature at a young age, like 16, 17, I was working full time plus. going to school. And it was like, I had to have that schedule of doing school work.
Cause I did like a co op program with school now back in the early two thousands, you could do like a half day of school and then go to work. I just was not a school person. I was not great in math, especially. Um, it just wasn’t something I really loved. Um, but I loved going to work and I loved interacting with people and I just had to have that schedule.
And like I scheduled out when I was. Uh, studying because of certain tests on certain days and then same thing with college. It was like I had to have Certain days for clinical days and certain days for school days and then some nights I was working and weekends I was working at certain places. So I Always had a paper calendar until probably when my son, my first son was born, like I had to have the digital calendar because if I didn’t have it in front of my face, it was like, okay, what’s next?
Cause your mind is so tired constantly as a mom. Cause here’s the other thing as a mother, there’s the little things in motherhood and in business that it’s like, Our husbands don’t realize like that. My son with the award, mental load, mental load, my son with his award. I had to make sure his hair was done and he brushes teeth nicely.
You know, it’s the little things that the making sure I have enough lunch meat for tomorrow, because the boys always go through so much lunch meat during the day. So it’s the little things that like, I have to make sure I have like. Every Monday and Thursday there’s grocery shopping on Monday and then Thursday it’s like check the fridge to make sure there’s enough That’s literally in my calendar.
It’s on my to do list for certain days Because if I don’t do it and we run out and I have nothing on Friday, I have to go to the grocery store as I’m taking them to school. So it’s like, it’s just so much.
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. That, that mental load thing is something that my wife and I have talked about a lot because I, I wasn’t, I didn’t quite understand it.
And she’s like, it’s all of these like little things and Alice’s like my oldest daughter’s school and the fact that she’s got this science fair and what project we can do for the science fair. But then the other two, they’ve got this thing, we’ve got that thing. And then she’s that, then I’m also thinking about this project coming up and work and how the house is a mess.
And I’m like, Oh, I get it. I get it. And then, and then when I ask you something like, you know, what do you want me to do that actually adds to your mental load? Because, because I’m asking you to tell me what to do out of the things that you have on your list. Now you have to think about what is helpful for me to do or like, and I’m like, Oh yeah, it is
Jackie: so true.
Oh, like I, like even with my husband, he says the same thing. What can I do to help you? Like, Yep. Just do the dishes before you leave for work in the morning so I can put breakfast in the dishwasher, you know It’s just it’s the little things that like I think we’ve been talking about love languages recently and
Dan: oh, dr.
Gary Chapman, yeah
Jackie: like, if services are done for me, I’m like, Oh, you did those dishes. Oh, I love you even more today.
I haven’t read the book, but I’ve heard so much about it.
Dan: That guy, Dr. Gary Chapman, who created those, that was a pretty significant helper for my wife and I in our early relationship. What are they? So it’s acts of service, words of affirmation, quality time. Sense of touch and something else. Did I say acts of service?
Yeah. Yeah. I can’t think of the other one now. That’s a bummer. Anyway. Um, yeah, those are such an interesting thing, uh, of like how to communicate, but yeah, you said acts of service. Like when, when something like, uh, when your wife or your husband does something little that makes you feel love. Oh my
Jackie: God. I love it.
Yeah,
Dan: it’s, it is those little things, right? And they add up. So it’s like, okay. But then again, here’s what I’m interested in is like this desire that you still have or how you view the relationship between your voluntarily. adding more stuff onto your plate with your business and with wanting to help other women through this and wanting to help other, you know, moms through this and like all of this stuff, like you’re voluntarily adding on.
More stuff onto your plate on top of the mental family load on top of the dishes on top of dinners and all that stuff. So what does this over here give you? Because it has to give you something like the work has to give you something for you to want to voluntarily add more to your life, right? So what does it give you?
Jackie: That’s a great question. I love to have my clients come back multiple times a year. And I want them to be happy with their memories and I want them to be a part of them with the planning process. Instead of just like a questionnaire being sent with colors and props, you want, like we’re doing zooms and we’re all excited about their session coming up.
Like I love to see their faces when they see their pictures or when that album comes in and either I deliver it to them or I ship it to them. I’m like, send me a video. Like, I love to see your reaction. It’s that like, I know I can make my family happy and I know what things I can do for them. But to see technically a complete stranger, super happy with the work I’ve done for them and hit those expectations that they have.
It’s like, it’s so exhilarating. It’s so, So much fun to make them happy. And then a lot of my clients are baby planters. So they do maternity, newborn and first birthday. And I see the kids growing up and so many kids come in now. And they’re like, hi, aunt Jackie, I’m here for my picture. And it’s super easy.
And it’s like, I had the chills. Like I love seeing these kids come in. It’s so much fun. And then the moms come in and we just have like great conversation. How’s school? How’s this? How’s it? It’s amazing. Like, I love that.
Dan: Is that something that you had in your life with your kids? Or did you not have that?
Or did you have that growing up? Like, like, where did that come from?
Jackie: Awesome. A great question.
Dan: Like, cause I don’t know, I’m just digging deeper. Like, is that something that you had always wanted and now you get to give this to other cause you, you see how fast it goes, right? You’ve got an eight, a six and eight month old, eight month old.
Yeah. Um, you see how fast it goes. So like, are you. In some way trying to give this back to them or what? Yeah,
Jackie: I think I started my business to take pictures of my future kids because I knew we would eventually have kids one way or the other and to see those families have those precious memories and be able to look back at them and just feel that warmth and fun and like knowing that I appreciate them and I created this for them and It’s not just a photo shoot.
It’s like, I feel like they’re part of my family as well. I hope I’m part of their family, but, um, it also brings me back to healthcare. Like I went into healthcare to help people. And unfortunately, after being in it for so long, it’s about the money. I mean, I know it’s, there’s. Pros and cons about the healthcare system and everything, but anytime I would try to do more for my patient, I was always told no, because it wasn’t pre certed or it wasn’t scripted correctly, or we don’t have enough time.
And it was like, that’s not customer service. That’s not. Doing the right thing for the patient.
Dan: That’s a factory. Yeah,
Jackie: literally we would call our MRI machine a conveyor belt because it was every 30 minutes an exam, no matter if it was a 45 minute exam or if it was a 15 minute exam, it was chaos. I guess that’s also where I learned how to thrive in chaos.
Because even at my young age, I was 22 when I started my first full time MRI job, those doctors would come to me with those crazy cases because they knew I could handle the stress of it. And like a lot of, I did a lot of fetal MRIs as well in the center, I guess you would call it. Nobody else wanted to do them because they were like, Oh, I don’t, I haven’t done that in years, or I don’t even want to do that.
And I’m like, give it to me. It’s a challenge. I’ll take it. Oh, this is fun. Like, so I guess it kind of comes back from like the healthcare and like not being able to do the best for my patient, but I can do that with my clients.
Dan: Yeah, I’m also hearing because, you know, so we’ve obviously talked about the fact that you’re a photographer.
We’ve talked about the fact that you’re a mama and you obviously have this like helper’s heart or this caring heart. And so how does this, how does this whole side of your business that you’ve been developing and you’ve been doing. How does that work? over the last, you know, five or six years of working with moms.
Um, and your, your group is called, uh, photography business mastery for moms. How does that fit into this? Cause I just see that as an extension of your caring heart, where you’re just smashing the things that you love most together as somebody who has this superpower to do this stuff and enjoy it and thrive in it.
And now you want to teach this, how to do this to other moms. Is that, how does this all fit
Jackie: Yes. So I feel like I have Had a lot of trials and tribulations and figured out what works best for me. So it’s easy to kind of share that with others and working with their schedules as well. So I mentored a person, I think it was last year who was pregnant with her third.
And she was like, I just don’t know how I’m going to do it all. And I’m like, you’re not supposed to do it all. Like you can outsource. It’s okay to outsource. And I first suggested her to get a VA because she was also doing phone call consultations with her clients or potential clients before they booked.
There was no time for her to set a specific time to do those phone calls because her two kids were I think three and five at the time. And she was almost due with the third. And I was like, VA. Get a mom who’s a stay at home mom who can do it on her schedule. Do, I have T Mobile, but I think she had Verizon where you can do like an online phone number and she can still use her phone and be able to text and you can see those texts back and forth.
Um, scheduling it during her kid’s nap time. Cause that’s exactly what works for my VA. And it is phenomenal for her. If she’s not available. I think it was two weeks ago, she was going out to dinner and somebody requested a 645 on a Wednesday night call. And she was like, I’m going, I’m going out to dinner.
Can you do that? And I’m like, absolutely not a problem. 99 percent of the time she’s available. And if not, she can text me. The client to say we’re booked at that time, even if it’s like not a good time for her, and she say, how’s three o’clock? And they’ll say yes or no. We always get a text message back with a confirmation or a, let’s change the time and.
Texting used to be so unprofessional, but I’m all for it now.
Dan: I love it now. Absolutely. The worst thing in the entire world for me is like somebody asked me a single question and I’m just like, and I have to write this email back. That’s like. Hey, Jackie, so great to hear from you. Thanks for reaching out.
The answer to your question is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. All the best Dan Moyer. Like then my signature versus like in a text, it’s like, Hey, this is the answer to your question. Boom.
Jackie: Yup. So I’m totally for texting. We also text five minutes before our phone call so that the client knows this is our phone number.
It’s not a spam call. So. Getting the mom’s schedule first for what they are doing now and then adding in either a baby or more work, or if they don’t have that time, what can we do to outsource? to give you more time. You don’t have to do it alone.
Dan: I have a question because this, this is so hard in the beginning, right?
Like kids, kids, like my kids, I feel like just started getting on a schedule, but that first year that maybe a little bit more is really hard when there really isn’t a schedule. So how do you work through a situation like that where there’s a lack of schedule?
Jackie: So If I didn’t have the VA, I would definitely talk to my husband about it.
I mean, I feel like we need a second person. If it’s, if we’re, if it’s a single mom or a single dad, you have to have someone who’s able to support you. And if you’re single, VA is going to help you with that. Don’t be scared to hire out anything. I think outsourcing is great. I love it. Um, it gives me back my time with my kids and this is why I started my business.
Was to be more with my family and my kids. So I’m totally outsourcing technically everything in my business, but I’m still mainly shooting, like my main job is shooting, but definitely having that conversation with your VA or your spouse or your partner to put it in the calendar, like every time my husband gets home at four 30, or if he’s running late, I’ll say, okay, if you’re running late, I have a seven 30 podcast or you have a seven 30 zoom.
Do you think I’ll be home on time? 99. 9 percent of the time he is, there was only once where I had to reschedule because he’s a, um, diesel mechanic and he travels with, um, like a work truck. They had to send him all the way down to Maryland because he was the only one that could do something specific.
And it was fine. The client was super easy and super nice about it. Um, but other than that, communication is huge with your VA, your partner, or your spouse. So
Dan: So I’m curious about the VA because that takes a lot of trust and in my mind I feel like it takes Because they’re not you so you have to relinquish some control or you have to re reevaluate what perfection is or Your level so I’m just curious about like the VA How you looked for a VA, what kind of things you send to them, the conversations you have with them.
Like just, there’s a lot, it seems like overwhelming to set that up.
Jackie: It is overwhelming slightly. The biggest thing is giving away control. I know that is such a big problem for photographers and business owners to begin with. But you have to give up control. If you’re going to grow your business, you can’t do everything all the time, or you’re going to go make yourself crazy, or you’re not going to have family time.
You got to give up one or the other. Um, so what we did was I brought her on for an interview. I think I interviewed her twice. She was also recommended from my editor. So she knew her personally. So she knew that she was reliable. She had a great tone of voice. Um, she was also adaptable if people had questions.
We also have a script. So literally everything that I would say on a phone call, uh, it’s right there with answers, frequently asked questions. I think the document is maybe five or six pages long. She rarely has to go through it. She’s been with me almost two years now, and she rarely has to go through it anymore.
She has it up just in case of a frequently asked question that is, Rarely asked honestly. Um, and then the first probably 2025 calls, she recorded herself in New Jersey. You don’t have to, at least as one person is knows that they’re being recorded. You can always say like, this is being recorded for training purposes, but technically in New Jersey, you don’t have to.
And she would just record, um, the phone call on her computer as she was doing it. And she was great. Only once or twice she said, what I really loved about it was like, I don’t know the answer to that, but let me text Jackie real quick and I’ll get that for you. And I was always available. I’m really, really quick with text messages.
I will say like, uh, we’re in the phone age right now. So it’s always somewhere on me probably. Um, especially with nursing a baby, it’s right there by my side, or I’m like, just staring at the wall. Like, so she’ll ask a question. I’ll answer right away. And she’s like, Oh, that book, the client easily, at least you answered that question.
That’s what they wanted and good to go. So you gotta give up the control. That is so hard for so many people, but you have to, that’s
Dan: so hard. Like I, I hear, I hear what you’re saying, but I’m just like, Oh, like it’s, you know, my, my business is Daniel Moyer photography. How do I, what things would I relinquish control on?
Um, or if I’m, you know, if I’m a mom or, or a single dad or whatever, it is like, You know how I’m going about this. I’m trying to find this person who’s going to, who’s going to step in for me and handle emails and all that kind of stuff. Um, I think you, you went into it a little bit, but can you talk about that like document that you created for your VA and like how you put that together and all that stuff?
Jackie: Yeah. So I literally kind of talked to myself one day and wrote the questions down and how we would have the conversation with the potential client, because we like to talk to them first to make sure that we are a good fit for them. If they are looking for somebody that is like super moody, outdoors in the mountains, that’s not going to work.
We’re not going to work. No simple, maybe a few pops of color here and there, but it’s very simple. With, uh, headbands and stuff like that for the babies. But if, if she feels that they are looking for something that we do not do, the answer is right there. I think that you may not, I think, what’s, I don’t know the exact words, but I think we may not be the best fit for you because of this, this, and this that you want, and we do not provide that.
Biggest things like weddings. If somebody said they wanted a wedding, first of all, I have a document already ready in honey book that I could just send right off with referrals. But if somebody calls right from Google, which we get it all the time, she knows exactly what to say. Here are the three people that we refer.
Dan: But you don’t have weddings on your website. Why would somebody call for weddings? If you don’t have any weddings on your website?
Jackie: Google. I love, like I said, I love SEO. So I did weddings. Eight. Six, seven, eight years ago. So they’re probably still on my blog or they’re probably tagged at like the venue probably.
So like a blog will pop up, but I’m a stickler with SEO, so I don’t want to take it off.
Dan: However, people can find you. I like just let it happen.
Jackie: But I get, I did a, um, surprise proposal up at High Lawn Pavilion in North Jersey, orange, orange, something. And I get calls at least once a month. Okay. Can you do a surprise proposal up there?
I’m like, no, not at this time, but I will, but yeah, it’s literally everything. I mean, I’ve been doing phone calls. for six years now. And the VA has been doing
Dan: phone calls.
Jackie: No. So I’ve been doing phone calls with my business for about six years now. And she’s been doing the phone calls for about almost two September.
I think it’ll be two years. And then I had a VA before her. Who moved unfortunately, and she just got a full time job instead of working online. So, um, she did it for almost two years too. So it’s traveled along and any questions that come up that aren’t on the document, she’ll add to like the bottom of it.
And then we’ll discuss it and see like proper verbiage to use but she’s really good now. Yeah The other thing is, um incentives, so I pay a well paid wage for what they’re doing But they all have percentage incentives to hit. So she has a 40 percent booking rate to get a bonus every month. So that’s one thing that I feel if you’re hiring somebody is instead of just like having goals for them, either incentive goals or hit.
So my editor has like a newborn session has to be hit between five to six hours of editing. Does it ever hit that far? No. But it’s more for like the really deep edits of like skin retouching. Like we just did twins in the head swap. She had to do, it was insane, but if she hits all her goals, she gets a monthly incentive as well.
So
Dan: cool. Okay.
Jackie: There’s like a percentage that they have to hit or a certain amount of time they have to hit too. You don’t want them to take over your time and you’re paying for them to like. Go to the bathroom for 25 minutes. You know what I mean? And that’s something you have to trust them. You have to trust your employee.
And I trust them 100%. But of course it’s like. Clock out, go to the bathroom, come back in, you know?
Dan: So I’m curious about this a little bit more because Have you, um, have you had to like go through and find a couple of different VAs or would you pretty much like find one right away? Like what was the process?
Cause I can imagine if somebody’s like not clicking, what’s the saying? Like, um, higher fast or higher, slow fire fast, I think is the saying. Yes.
Jackie: Yeah, I’m very lucky that I put, um, Facebook, uh, applica what is it? Application? Uh, Facebook, uh. That sounds right.
Dan: Applications. Something.
Jackie: Yeah, I put like a description of exactly what I wanted.
And if they fit all of those needs. Then I brought them in for a trial. I had a 90 day review period. We go over everything. I have goals that they should have hit by then. They have all hit those goals. Um, they’re also have local referrals too. So that was nice. I did hire one person from, I want to say LinkedIn it was, or something.
And she worked for about three months in studio. And then she decided to go back to New York city when it opened up after COVID. So that was fine. I don’t think she would have been here much longer after that, just because our vibes were not vibing,
Dan: you know, I feel that.
Jackie: So definitely have to get people that vibe with you.
Who will enhance your brand. Typically a mom is on brand, someone who’s very patient and kind and gentle with the kids. Someone who doesn’t have kids probably would not vibe with us.
Dan: Yeah. There’s, uh, yeah, I think you have to have a, a certain kind of vibe. If you’re in this like very high touch place where you’re like coming alongside your clients, you’re very close with them.
You’re building this rapport. So you have to find somebody who is also that. that kind of empath or that kind of deep feeler. Yes. And so, all right. So I guess, you know, as we’re moving from this, like, this is one of the things that obviously the, the different moms and parents that you work with, um, you’re saying, Hey, if you don’t have the time, a VA is a great person.
What are some of the other things that as you’re talking with moms and the individuals that you’ve coached in the past that are like the, either the stumbling blocks or the big things that’s like when you solve this or when you, um, put your energy on this, this is going to reap. Significant dividends after you get over this thing or this hurdle because you’re you’re working with lots of different people in such Different areas of life, right?
You’re looking at, you’re working with moms who are, some of them maybe have brand new businesses and brand new babies. Some of them might have older kids and they’re like getting into their businesses. So I was like, yes, hire a VA, like master the schedules. Like the first thing, what are the other things that you’re, um, that moms are just, and are just struggling with and that you’re coming alongside them and helping them through?
Jackie: I would say definitely first the scheduling, a lot of scheduling issues between, uh, Having the computer on your lap as the kids are watching TV, or you’re in between messaging back and forth between a client as you’re cooking dinner, like setting, helping them set boundaries that work best for them. If it’s not a VA thinking about something else that doesn’t make them money in their business, because the client already purchased, whatever it is, if it’s outsourcing album designs, if it’s an editor, I have an editor and that has saved me a So much time and I’m okay giving that away and outsourcing that because they, all my clients are looking at straight out of camera images, so they don’t even see the full edit, but they now trust me because they see it on Google, not Google, um, Instagram or on our portfolio.
They see it before they even come in. So they know, like, and trust me. So they’re not buying the edit. They’re buying the memories. They just. I just give that control up as well.
Dan: I, I want to go back to something you just said though, a minute ago, which is like the mom’s sitting with their laptop on their lap with kids working around.
And I, I think there’s some mindset stuff in here. And I, uh, we talked about the mental load and all that already. Um, obviously not a mom. I’ve got my own set of mindset things and, uh, my own issues, but I’m very curious about that because I can, I can imagine and correct me if I’m wrong, that it’s like, Oh, I.
I have to be doing it now because I’m either not going to have the energy later. I don’t know if the kids are going to sleep or like, this is my only time to do it. How the hell do you get moms out of that space or to feel like they’ve got enough done to be able to say, okay, I’m shutting the laptop now.
Now I’m just going to play with the kids or I’m just going to do this thing. Cause I think that moms are on all the time.
Jackie: Yeah, absolutely. Do you hear that rain? Is that okay?
Dan: Yeah, that’s fine. It adds some ambiance.
Jackie: This is a pole barn, so it can get loud, but I think it’s only like sprinkling out, so I think it should be fine.
Dan: I like it.
Jackie: So the biggest thing I say is you want to be present with your kids because they are going to notice when you’re not present and when you’re on the phone or on the laptop, or if you’re trying to get something done on the phone and this one’s coming over asking for a snack and you’re like, yeah, whatever.
Like they’re going to see that and they’re going to know that and they’re going to be like, Oh,
Dan: something.
Jackie: So my biggest thing is being present with the kids is number one. Setting those boundaries and you don’t have to say to your client like, okay, I work from 7 p. m. to 9 p. m. Monday through Friday. Like they don’t need to know that, but as long as you’re getting back to them in a timely matter, that’s a good enough boundary for you to be present with your kids.
after dinner, having ice cream or watching that movie on a weekend. I think that is probably one of the most important things because like I said, they’re going to see you being frazzled and having something else on your mind when all they want to do is be with you. And I’m guilty. Don’t, don’t get me wrong.
I’m guilty of this. 100%. Like right now, we’re super busy with like the portraits for the preschool and it’s just it’s chaos. There’s so much paperwork to do.
Dan: I can only imagine.
Jackie: But having my husband there from like six 30 to seven, so I could get a few of the. It’s done for their online gallery. Like that helped me a lot.
And having my husband there as a support system and has been truly amazing as well.
Dan: Yeah. Yeah. There’s this, there’s this thing that I think I hear from a lot of different parents or even even individuals who don’t have children, but are like, well, it seems like the self care side of this or the, the, I’m going to shut the business off so I can have some me time that feels like such a luxury for people that they’re like, no.
I’ve got to get the six figures. I got to do this thing. And I feel like what most of us don’t realize is like, like we could get, I’m very guilty of this where I would be like, Oh, you know what? I’m going to drop my daughter off at daycare. I’m going to go to my cafe office for a couple hours, right? Which is just Starbucks.
And I’ll sit there and I’m burning through money. I’m not focused because I’m just like, Walking downstairs, I’m looking at the people around me or whatever. I feel like we could get so much more done if we just were to sit down, bust some things out in this like timed period versus. saying like I need every second of every day because nobody can operate at a hundred percent, a hundred percent of the time.
Jackie: Absolutely. Um, one thing I would say, if, if you have a set schedule for work, making sure that now the season of life that I’m in right now, it’s hard because the baby, it takes a lot. Maybe it takes a lot. If the kids are in school full time, then I have more luxury of course, but everybody has a different season as well.
I’ve definitely been guilty of. Thinking that my seasons could keep going and just keep building the business. But right now I’m in the season of staying home more and outsourcing more. Um, but like that 30 minutes of, uh, reading a book while the baby was napping, instead of doing laundry or doing the kitchen and just.
taking that time to just relax for myself was really big.
Dan: That’s got to give you more energy for later. If you took a little bit of time for you, then it’s like, Oh, I just like, it seems counterintuitive, right? Like it, again, correct me if I’m wrong. Like you having this little bit of time for yourself, this little white noise time where you get to just focus on yourself.
I imagine that would give you a little bit of energy to attack the rest of the day or whatever.
Jackie: Absolutely. It totally did. Cause I was like, okay, I’m really good with timers too. So, so every day I had the four 30 timer. I have the seven 30 timer for bedtime routine. If I have that 30 minutes, like the baby, I’ll typically take like a 30 minute nap in the morning and then a two hour nap in the afternoon.
If I have that 30 minutes, I’d say, okay, I have 15 minutes to read the book or listen to a podcast. And then I’ll do this, this and this, whatever needs to be done. It’s hard as a mom to take that time. Cause then you feel guilty. I always feel guilty about not spending enough time or not doing enough. But I think we also need to realize that what we’re seeing on social media is not true life as well.
I used to compare myself to social media all the time. My kitchen is a Brown cabinet kitchen. I need to redo my kitchen. No, it’s a functioning kitchen. It’s totally fine. The Island is a mess. Kids lunchboxes are everywhere. There’s snacks underneath like it’s okay. We’re surviving.
Dan: Yeah,
Jackie: that’s the Season I’m in right now
Dan: Yes, oh my gosh, that’s a season that we are into there’s just like snack wrappers everywhere And there’s goldfish smashed into the carpet by the end of the day this It’s tricky.
Um, this like when you’re in different seasons and you think that the season is going to last or whatever. Um, I guess what are the, what are the habits that you have been able to take with you through like these seasons where, cause you get into a routine and then all of a sudden like it completely changes, then you get into a routine with the kids or with the business and then something else changes.
What have you, what habits have you sort of taken through that time to be able Keep the calm, keep the, you know, the momentum in the business and that kind of stuff. Organization. That’s what I was going to say. That’s gotta be part of it for you.
Jackie: Um, a to do list, a constant to do list. Honestly, if people, I don’t know if you post this on YouTube or not, but let me see if I can bring up my latest.
Dan: Let’s see it.
Jackie: That one. Okay. I don’t know if you can see this. I don’t think you can see it, but it literally has the meals in the evening that are available and then going down lower is a to do list. Okay. I had to ship that album. I have to text on it again about her album. And then I have 14 different backend things.
That can be done, but it’s not necessary to get done with a timeframe. It’s there when I have a few minutes and then there’s a location I have to look at. These are notes from a client zoom,
Dan: just all the things in one spot, all
Jackie: the things in one. Because if I’m looking at dinner and then I’m like, okay, that zoom is not supposed to start for another 15 minutes.
I can package this album up so that I can ship that off in the morning after I dropped the kids off at school. And then. Okay, I technically will have five more minutes after that. I’ll sit down. I’ll write this email because I have to ask her about where she wants to go. So I mean, having it all in one place is super easy.
And I used to try and have like a notebook of stuff to go back to. I never had the notebook on me, but we all have our phone on us. So I have documents upon documents of just Write it down because if I don’t write it down, I will forget. And I even tell my clients, if I don’t answer you back within 24 hours, I saw it as I was driving.
And then I’ve said, okay, I’ll get back to them when I get home. Cause you know how it pops up if you’re like doing directions. Um, and then I forget. So I’m like, I will not be upset if you text me again within 24 hours. And I will literally say, yes, I saw that driving as I picked up the kids. I’m so sorry.
I forgot. Here’s what are you? But whatever you do. Yeah, this, this is
Dan: something that in almost every episode this season, um, everybody has like pretty significant boundaries around communication with clients. A lot of, a lot of the photographers that I’ve had on here. have a lot of community like text message communication because it’s easy.
Um, but I love, I had Ray Barnes on, she was a couple of episodes ago and miles with Boyer, who’s another photographer I know who I really like. And they both had this, some version of like, like miles said it best. I think he was like, you know, if I, at a certain point, like I’m out doing things with my kids, I’m on the soccer pitch or whatever.
He’s like, I’m human. When you’re, when you’re working on stuff and you’re thinking about your wedding and whatever, and you’re thinking about bridesmaids dresses and you want to know what color bridesmaids dresses I think would look good, he’s like, yeah, send that to me, um, at 11 PM. That’s fine, but know that I’m a human and my phone is off and I’m going to see it tomorrow.
And if I don’t see it tomorrow and I don’t get back to you, it’s because, you know, my kids are fighting about waffles or bagels or orange juice. And, and like, yeah, and then like, you know, I will get back to you. Just hit me back up. Right. Um, but we all, we all have this pressure that we really want to be perfect for our clients.
We really don’t, we want to come across as not dropping the ball or any of that stuff. It’s tricky.
Jackie: I will say if it’s not a work day and it’s all a kid’s day, I will check it in the morning, do my emails, whatever I need, text messages back and forth. I’m not one to put my phone on, do not disturb. Because you never know when there’s an emergency in the middle of the night from a family member.
My husband does it, I’m like, don’t do it. Like, the one time someone’s gonna fall and break a hip is when you’re on Do Not Disturb. But I will do morning and evening and just check in. Because it also takes less off my plate when I go back into the studio to get stuff done. So I’m okay doing an email, text message morning or night before kid stuff.
I try my very best to not be on the phone when it’s a soccer game or, but if it is like, so my younger, my middle one is six. If it is like halftime and he’s just like jumping around, he’s totally my go, go, go wild child.
Dan: Um,
Jackie: he’s just jumping around and I’m like, Oh, somebody texted me. Let me just real quick.
Okay. Yes. Got it.
Dan: Fired back. Yep.
Jackie: But at least it’s quick and easy. That’s the thing. I use honey book. I don’t know what type of, uh, CRM system you use. Like you get notifications of like. If email comes through, I will like leave it up there so that in the, in the evening, at least I know, okay, I got to click that and go in and do that.
Click that, go in and do that. Yeah.
Dan: You, I, I love how you’re just like, you seem very intentional about things and you’re able to just like, like, uh, you’re, you’re organized and that like, you’re thinking, okay, I’ve got time for this. I’ve got time for that. I can imagine that the, the little white space pockets that you have are really helpful for you to like, Both calm down like like take your nervous system down a little bit and then also Replan for like the next thing or the next round of like things going on and stuff.
Jackie: Yeah right now I don’t have much white space It’s probably when like I’m rocking a baby in the stroller While I’m trying to look at the calendar or I’m scrolling tech talk to you So, you know, we’re all trying to be social media and doing all the Not dances, but like the funny stuff. I love to be personal on my social media.
So like, I’m saving, I call it like market research. So I’m like saving funny TikToks so I could do later. So it’s still working, but like, I’m still like just scrolling too.
Dan: That’s white space. We, I mean, that’s a form of self care. Let’s be honest. So, all right. So let me think here. Um, as we’re starting to like wrap up this episode and I know you, I want, I want you to shout out your podcast and like, and your, the, the group work that you’re doing.
Um, but I’m just wondering if you can tie together like the threads of this conversation. You know, I think we covered a whole group of Quite a range of different things from just what it feels like to be a mom and the mental load to, um, you know, hustling in your business and, and having that part be fulfilling to you.
And then how you put those things together. Now, how you’re working with other, uh, moms. If you can just draw together some of the threads from this. And it’s like, if there’s anything that you just want to be able to communicate, you have this like a moment, I’ll just give it to you to communicate.
Whatever is on your heart to share, um, or whatever you think that there’s a parent out there. Who’s like, I know you’re in this spot. This is what I want you to know. What would you say?
Jackie: Ooh,
Dan: pressure. Great
Jackie: questions tonight. No, this is great. It’s made me think a lot. Um, setting boundaries. Number one with clients.
Is going to be great for your kids as well. That’s a big thing. I’ve been very strict about this year is setting those dinner time boundaries of being off the phone I think also We don’t realize that there are so many seasons of life as a parent, especially a mother that we need to Step back and look at the big picture.
So one thing with my business Like you said, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle. And then I had the baby in July and then I was like, hustle, hustle, hustle. I can keep doing it. I can keep doing it. And then I hit a breaking point and I was burnt out. And that’s why this year is more stepping back, outsourcing and having really major boundaries.
Um, because I don’t want to get in that point in my business where I don’t like it anymore. I want to love my business. Um, so, and
Dan: my
Jackie: children and my children, and that’s the thing. It’s like, uh, if I could shut everything down tomorrow, I could take the time off. But then two weeks from now, I’ll be like, I want to get back in.
I, cause I do truly love my business. I actually love the business part better than the shooting part, but then I do the business stuff. And then I’m like, why am I not with this client? So it’s like such a, like, um, Love hate relationship with business, right? Um, but looking at the season that you’re in right now, do not compare yourself to anyone else.
I’m big with imposter syndrome as well. I look at my competition and I’m like, she’s doing all this, this, and this, and this, she doesn’t have a baby at home. Like I do share our kids are in high school. She’s been in business for 25 years. I’ve been in business going on 11. Like it’s so different. You also don’t know what other people are outsourcing.
So I get it questions all the time. How are you always doing this? How are you always doing so much? It’s not all me. I credit my VA and my editor so much because they are such a huge help on the backend. We blog all the time. We blog twice a week, if not three or four times a week. Yeah. Huge on blogging. I love blogging.
Great for SEO. It is not dead. Do it. That’s the one marketing take you take do a blog, keep blogging all the time. My VA does it. I have not touched a blog in. Four years, I want to say. So I, my editor will send her about five or six images. I will give her either a voice note or a memo, depending at the baby sleeping, it won’t be a voice note, it’ll be a text message and she will write a blog.
I’m also not against using like AI chat, GBT, and she puts in what she would technically write, but you know, we want a bunch more words. To make it a little bit juicier. Um, and then she just mixes it up a little bit because I know Google’s kind of trying to cut back on the AI blogging stuff, so she makes it look like it’s not AI generated, but, um, outsourcing your season of life is going to be so different for everybody.
And if you’re in the season that I’m in with three kids, eight, six, and eight months, Um, it’s okay to outsource and you’re not cheating. I want to say that you’re not cheating by like giving up control. This is why we start our businesses to spend more time with our kids. So it’s okay to outsource. You can’t do everything.
And I’m totally fine admitting that.
Dan: Love it. Um, all right. I actually have a one final follow up question about the VA. Like I’ve been thinking about this.
Jackie: It’s so hard to give up control. So it does take time. Um, so don’t think that it’s just an easy jump and you’re just going to trust somebody you, they have to gain that trust as well.
It’s just like any other job. If they’re applying for the job, they need to be able to hit those certain tasks or have that knowledge of doing, unless you’re willing to really train. I mean, Honestly, my VA didn’t know too, too much about blogging. She knew nothing about blogging. Now that I think about it.
And I sent her like a small, like free SEO course. And then we did, uh, zooms back and forth to talk about maybe change this up and alt text and all of that. But training is going to be big too. So you got to make sure, um, were you asking about. Did I have the money for it?
Dan: Oh, I’m going to ask about if you, did you wait until you had the money to outsource, uh, or, or did you sort of think like, okay, by hiring this person, I’m going to be able to bring more money in because they’re sort of like an investment.
Jackie: That’s a great question. Yes. And no, like I had a few extra thousand dollars to kind of put towards marketing, but I’m not an ads person. I hate doing ads. I feel like. I feel like once I put money into Google ads, it’s going to be like, keep paying me, I’m not going to give you organic traffic. Oh my gosh.
I’m so, cause I did a Facebook ad for Christmas last year and, um, it worked. Don’t get me wrong. It worked, but it was like, now nothing is organic coming from Facebook. I, so I like killed my Facebook that way.
Dan: Yeah.
Jackie: Um, but I would say I set myself a list and goal of what she should know within 20 hours. She hit that goal and it was like, okay, that hit within 20 hours may not sound like a lot, but when you’re zooming back and forth and you’re, she’s clocking in.
So I use QuickBooks and it’s, uh, into it clock in paycheck system basically. Um, and I see when she’s working and everything. So, and she writes down a description of what she does. Quick, but it’s not super expensive, but you still have to think it’s it’s a cost of doing business as well so It’s so hard to do cost of doing business when She sometimes takes four hours for her eight blogs a month or sometimes she takes hours.
It depends on how descriptive she is and how many we have to do. But I think if you have certain goals, the person has to hit, you know, budget wise where you’re going to be. Um, and also you have to make sure you’re bringing in clients too, but the blogs and the SEO is definitely going to bring in those clients.
So it’s, it’s a conveyor belt of. The work goes out, the work comes in, the work goes out, the work comes in, but also now I’m not doing that work. So I’m okay paying it.
Dan: Heck yeah. Um, I am, I’m super grateful for your vulnerability and like, and just your passion in, you know, Uh, in like tying all these areas together of like your business and your family life and, and finding a way to do both, right?
Like my friend, joy, Michelle has a podcast called called to both. And it’s about, um, women who, who are sort of transcend both of these roles that are thrown onto them or like, you can’t have a business, you have to be a mom or like, you know, if you do any of these things, I just love that you, You found this way to like pull it all together.
And, and you have like a really thoughtful way of, of teaching it to other people. Um, and so I’m really grateful that you shared, um, all about like how you do it, um, that there’s imperfection in it. It’s messy and all that kind of stuff. Um, but I’d like, can you shout out your podcast and the things you’re doing and where, um, individuals who are out there listening to this and say like, yeah, this resonates with me.
I want to find out more about Jackie and what she’s doing.
Jackie: Yeah. Awesome. So, uh, the course is going to be called photography business mastery for moms. That is also a podcast website is coming soon, but you can see all of the content on my Stinsman photography. It’s S T I N S M a N photography on Instagram and Facebook.
I really use that page more for like. 90 percent personal brand and then bring in business. Um, my stories are pretty much very personal. And I also love to share like inspirational quotes for mom specifically. Um, so that’s another thing with marketing is social media should be social. And I try my very best to be social with a sprinkle of business and a sprinkle of different blogs and.
And showing it all, honestly.
Dan: Very cool. Um, okay. Uh, I think that this is, this is going to be volume one. I think there’s a whole bunch more that we could dive into in each of these, like three little sections. Um, but for now let’s wrap it up. I’m so, so thankful that I got to talk with you. I get, can’t wait to share this in our sort of little group.
Um, and have those people also see this side of you. It’s going to be awesome. So thanks so much for
Jackie: being here. Thank you so much. That was, this was so much fun.
+ show Comments
- Hide Comments
add a comment