Podcast Episodes

083 | Create a Referral Generating Photography Business | Part 4

June 18, 2024

Why is it important to anchor your sales to positive emotions? Today’s episode is the fourth in a series that aims to explore that exact question. Inspired by Alex Hormozi’s book $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No, I’m sharing key concepts that I’ve implemented in my own business […]

I'm Dan!

Photographer, podcaster, extreme empath, and certified life coach. I help photographers enjoy more family and personal time while growing their business.


If money management gives you the sweats, this is the guide for you.

Download Now


Why is it important to anchor your sales to positive emotions? Today’s episode is the fourth in a series that aims to explore that exact question. Inspired by Alex Hormozi’s book $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No, I’m sharing key concepts that I’ve implemented in my own business to create meaningful client connections and cash flow. 

The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!

Subscribe on Your Favorite Podcast Player

Apple Podcast App | Spotify

What does it mean to seek positive emotion to anchor sales to? (2:42)

Bird personalities and what they need to hear (6:14)

Putting it into practice (10:44)

A personal referral is the most valuable marketing currency (16:02)


Chip Heath, Dan Heath: The Power of Moments

Alex Hormozi: $100M Offers: How To Make Offers So Good People Feel Stupid Saying No


Website: https://danielmoyercoaching.com/

Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO



This podcast is about giving to others in knowledge, joy, insight, and (*hopefully*) humor. You can help too! The more reviews and ratings in Apple Podcasts, the higher the Focused Photographers Podcast will rank and ultimately the more people will listen to it. So if you’re getting value from this podcast, will you consider leaving a rating on Apple Podcasts? Just click below!


Thank you!


Review the Transcript:

Hey photographer friends, welcome to the Focus Photographers podcast. I’m your host Dan Moyer and this is episode 83. It is the fourth installment in a series on creating a referral generating business. Now, this is a impactful series because this, as I mentioned in episode 80, the first one of the series, this is really the foundation of why I’m in business still 14 years later, why I still photograph weddings and families and all that stuff.

And so each of these episodes, I’ve gone over these three, uh, or I’ve gone over these individual concepts that I think are really important and how I’ve implemented them in my business. So if you’re coming to me, This is your first episode that you’re listening to. Welcome. I’m grateful that you’re here.

If you have not gone back and listened to episode 82, I’ll do a quick catch up, but I highly suggest you go back, listen to the whole series. Episode 80, which kicked off this whole entire series was an inch wide and a mile deep. And it’s basically this idea that the more you know your couples, the more you know them on this deep level, the better you can photograph them.

So many of us have this social media questionnaire sort of knowledge. About our clients. But you wouldn’t say, you know them, you might know about them, but you don’t know them on this deep level. You don’t know exactly what they want and who’s important to them. So I go over that in episode 80 81 is how to specifically differentiate yourself from everybody else.

It is a super impactful idea that I got from a book called the power of moments by Chip Heath and Dan Heath. And in that book, they talk about how everybody in a transaction, whatever sales transaction they’re going through, they have this idea in their mind or this script in their mind. And our job is to understand that script and then find ways to break it and, and create great moments of surprise and delight, create peaks for them to live through.

82, uh, was about being along for the journey, not just the wedding day or not just the session or maybe put another way. It’s to not make your clients wait to find out how amazing you are until after the session or after the wedding day. They shouldn’t wait because there’s so much about you that is going to make them want to tell their friends about you right now.

So each of these episodes, uh, I share the concept in the beginning, maybe with a story or something like that, the concept that’s really important and valuable. But there’s a lot of that. So I also go through each of the episodes and at the end, I share how I’ve actually implemented it in my business and what it actually looks like in practice.

So today we’re talking very specifically about how to seek positive emotion to anchor sales to. Let’s do it.

Okay. So what the heck does it mean to seek? positive emotion to anchor sails to, and I’m going to take it way back to this movie called Inception with Leonardo DiCaprio and Tom Hardy. Um, and some other people, I, uh, forget Joseph Gordon Levitt, I think was also in it. It’s a great movie. I loved it. Uh, if you’ve not seen it, I’m going to share this one specific part.

So the idea of the movie is that there is this, um, father son, uh, duo who, who, own this, uh, energy company. And there’s a competitor energy company that wants to basically find a way to insert an idea into the young, uh, son’s mind to basically break up the company. So this other competitor finds, uh, Cobb, who is played by Leonardo DiCaprio, who’s like this really amazing in the movie.

I can’t remember what it’s actually called, but it’s like he’s somebody who adjusts people’s dreams. That’s the whole premise of the movie. And so they’re trying to put this dream in somebody’s mind. They’re trying to plant it. It’s called inception. Um, and the actual act of planning is called inception.

So In one of these particular scenes, Tom Hardy’s character, Ames, is talking to Cobb, and they’re trying to figure out how to implant this idea that this son is supposed to break up this father’s company. And at first, Tom Hardy’s character, Ames, makes the suggestion that Fisher should break up his company as a screw you to his father, as like a, You know, a knife in his back because their relationship is father and son are already rough and it’s already strained.

But here’s the important part. Here’s what this whole episode is about today. Cobb replies back and this is verbatim. He says, no, because positive emotion trumps negative emotion. Every time we yearn to be reconciled for catharsis, we need positive emotional logic. I think it’s Joseph Gordon Levitt’s character, Arthur, who’s like, that’s great.

Like, how are we going to figure out how to break up his father’s company and make him like happy about it? So Tom Hardy then replies, uh, Aims character or Tom Hardy’s character is Aims. He replies back with a simpler. positive idea. And he basically says, my father was disappointed that I never got to create for myself.

He accept that I want to create for myself. Um, I actually linked the show notes, uh, this inception video in the show notes, so you can check it out. But here’s the idea is that the simplest form of an idea is what they’ll feel. So how does this, how does this make any sense in the term of wedding or photography or whatever it is?

Each of our clients is is totally different. They want to be seen, heard and understood. This is a phrase that I’ve been repeating over and over again on this podcast in this series. Our clients want to be seen, heard and understood. So many photographers, they fall back to this idea of just selling on FOMO, right?

Like if you’re talking about an album, it’s like, well, what if your USB gets lost when you want the prints then, or, um, you know, you Uh, you wouldn’t be, you’re not even be able to view your, your photos in a giant cloud 30 years from now. You know, can you find a photo from 2019 summer vacation on your phone right now?

Or I don’t know if these are actual ways, but like there’s variations of these all over the place of like trying to convince our clients that they’re going to be missing out on something. If they don’t buy an album, if they don’t buy this thing, if they don’t upgrade to this or that. A more positive emotional response that they can have is going to be based on their personality.

Um, if there’s lots of different personality types, bird personalities, I think are my favorite super simple way to understand sort of who you’re talking to and what they need to hear. The four bird personalities are dove, Peacock, eagle and owl. There are some other ones, but those are the four main ones.

So let me just go over them really quickly because I think this is important. Doves are your high feeling people. They are very much others focused. They might be your teachers, their nurses. They’re usually in caring professions. Peacocks, uh, are people who are center of the party. They’re high energy.

They like what other people think about them. That kind of thing. Uh, owls are very interested in sort of the steps of processes and things like that. Um, and then eagles are typically your, their, your challenge people, their doctors, their lawyers. They like to feel like they’re winning and that kind of stuff.

So when you’re When you’re talking with people and you’re selling to them, um, you would never say something to a dove that would be like, Oh, you deserve this, right? That would fall flat. Like when I was explaining, when I first learned these, I remember talking to my wife about them and trying to explain.

My wife is very smart. And sometimes she’s really good at calling me on my BS. And I was explaining this to them. And I was like, I think you’re a dove. And I was like, if I were selling an album to you, I wouldn’t say to you, you deserve this. This is so amazing. This is going to make you feel so great. I would say your Children are going to love this album and she immediately started to tear up and she’s like, yep, you got me right?

Um, I’m a peacock, uh, with with some very dove qualities. I’m an extreme empath. I’m highly emotional. Um, I love my Children. So I would have some of that. But I also This is a good thing and a fault about me that I, I care what people think about me in, in some ways more than others. But, you know, so that would be, that’s a great way to sell to me is, um, this is going to influence what other people think about you, or this is going to make you look better to other people, whatever.

Um, something I’m literally working on a therapy still, but you know, whatever, it’s, it’s part of it. And, you know, to owls, you would sell to them by sort of going through the process. You know, right now I’m going to, I’m going to take care of you through this whole process. Right now we’re going to do what’s called the discovery call.

If you guys decide to hire me, um, after that, we’re going to do a couple of planning calls to really plan out your session. Uh, then it’s session day. And then after your session, uh, we will get together again. We’ll do a cinematic Presentation of your slideshow, and then we’ll go through and figure out exactly what you want to do with your photographs, where they should be on your walls, how you want to display them and all that kind of stuff.

And then Eagle is totally. They just want to win. They want to feel like they’re winning. So everything is about, um, I have this one of a kind, super special, uh, crystal block piece of artwork that very few people get. It’s going to look amazing in your office. People are going to talk about it, blah, blah, blah, blah.

The point I’m trying to make here is that you have to first know who the person is that you’re speaking to. And you can do this just by like, just asking people and just asking about what’s important to them and their family members and whatever. But you’re just looking for like, what’s the simplest form of the idea that they’re going to feel, right?

So this is the concept. If the concept is like, You know, seeking this positive emotion, not, not FOMO, not like the, the negatives about buying this thing or that thing, or like trying to persuade them by telling your clients that they’re going to miss out or that, you know, because you really want them to have it.

This is another thing that photographers do all the time. Is that like, you really want this for them or you’re really excited for them. Just because you’re excited about something doesn’t make somebody else excited about it or somebody else want it more. So you have to find these ways that are really simple, uh, ideas, really simple forms of emotion that they will then pick up on and they’ll actually feel compelled then to buy or purchase from you because you made them feel seen, heard and understood.

Okay. So this feels like a little bit lofty, um, a little bit, um, maybe fuzzy. So let me, let me talk about how I put this in practice. And this is, this has happened many a time. So maybe 2017, 2018, 2019. I was talking with clients and, uh, I was, I was basically quoting them a package that I thought would work for their wedding.

I didn’t even have a price list during that point. I was just trying something totally crazy and it worked really well, but it was very time consuming for me. Now a second photographer is included in all of my wedding photography packages, so I don’t have to sell it the same way unless somebody really asked me, do I need one?

A new need a second photographer. This is how this looks in practice in my business. So let’s say this is like 2018 2019. I’m sitting across the table from one of my couples, and I’m quoting them specifically on why, you know, things that I think that they would need specifically for their wedding based on the size of it based on, um, you know, how many people are going to be there, their wedding party, all this kind of stuff.

And, uh, most photographers, I think if you’re having this conversation, this is how it would go. So, hey, groom, uh, do you think you need a second photographer or another photographer to cover your morning? How much is that? 1, 500. Uh, no, I don’t think I need a second photographer, right? Because the photographer or this, this groom is just totally thinking about the price.

There’s no, you haven’t anchored it to any reason more than he’s just thinking about price right now, right? So if I’m having this conversation with them, here’s how I would approach it. Hey groom, um, who’s in included in your wedding party or have you chosen your wedding party yet? And he’ll say, yeah, I actually have a say who’s, who’s in your wedding party.

And he would say, well, you know, I’ve got, you know, a couple of guys I’ve known, you know, since high school, I’ve got some college buddies. Um, and then I actually have a friend of mine who I’ve known like since like early middle school, actually even elementary school. And I’m like, holy crap, that’s, that’s unusual and interesting that you’ve known, you know, you’ve got a guy who you’ve known for that long.

I feel like that’s kind of rare, isn’t it? He’s like, yeah, you know, we’ve known each other for really long. We’ve been, you know, we’ve been friends for a long time. We went to different colleges, but you know, we sort of came back together and we’ve always just been there for each other. They’re like, Oh, is that so he’s super important to you and he’s like, yeah.

So what do you think it would mean to you in another 20 years? Now you guys have known each other for 40 years that you have these photographs of each other on your wedding day where you’re, you know, they’re support each other. You guys are chopping it up. You’re just friends. But now, you know, these, these pictures are going to mean what in another 20 years, do you think that would be important to you?

And he’ll say, yeah, I mean, we’ve been friends for a really long time. I think that’d be really important. And then I would follow it up and say, for that reason. I would suggest having a second photographer for your wedding day and it’s some variation of that all over the place, right? This just involves, you know, a little bit of knowing what’s important to your client, but also the fact that you’ve probably photographed a lot of weddings.

There are, there are unspoken benefits, right? Like to a second photographer, it makes, it allows you to be more, uh, have somebody like back you up. Um, it allows you to. Um, you know, have two angles on the wedding day, um, and all of these different things. And those are great ways to sell sort of like features and benefits, but those are not always the way to really sell somebody on something.

That conversation that I’d had, I’d had that so many times with grooms where I’d asked them, uh, or it could, you know, it could have been a multitude of different couples, right? I would just ask them, you know, is that going to be important to you to have both mornings cover where you both have these stories, you both have friends who are there for a really long time.

Um, what’s it going to mean to you in another 20 years or another 30 years for the two of you to have these photographs of this important person. And every single time they’re like, Oh yeah, that would be really important. And now all of a sudden 1, 500 doesn’t sound like as much. This is probably the one concept that takes people the longest to implement.

This is probably the one that it really requires you to stretch your mind and think about and really use those empathy skills. This one is also one that I think makes people feel uncomfortable because they feel like they’re being salesy. But there’s a huge difference between Seeing what, like seeing what people need and showing them why they need it and just using some manipulative way to sell them or something like that.

This is not manipulation. This is you finding out, um, exactly why this person needs a, uh, a photographer, right? If they, after it, said no or or if they like, um, object in some reason, some way I would try to find out more about their objection. Um, sometimes it’s just like things feel a little bit too fast.

Um, and they need more time to think about it. And if they still say no, after I explore their objection, then I move on. Right. This is not about emotional manipulation. This is not about like, it’s about finding out what’s really important to people and selling to them based on that fact, because you know that it’s going to be actually important to them.

But again, this is the one that takes people the longest because it’s, it’s just unnatural. It’s unnatural to Take such an interest in other people and make them feel seen, heard, and understood. But it really builds people up when you do, when you see them, and when you come alongside them and say, Hey, I’m an expert.

I’ve photographed this many weddings, and this is why I think you need these things. So this is a sort of a lofty one. I hope that this is one that maybe makes your, your sales gears start turning. Um, maybe it, uh, hopefully it doesn’t make you feel icky. That’s something that, uh, you might have to work through if it’s, uh, makes you feel a little salesy, but.

This is one of the ones where getting out of your comfort zone on this is going to reap huge benefits both for your client because you’re gonna be able to serve them in a way that they’re gonna feel taken care of and feel served on a really deep level. And it’s also also add more money to your pocket.

From here, um, I’m super grateful that you guys have been along for this journey. I have one little tiny itty bitty bonus tip here at the end. Since you’ve been here, this is like the, the little tidbit that I want to add on the end here. This is the bonus. And this concept is something I just want to throw out here really quick, because I didn’t think that it was enough to add a whole episode, but I wanted to give it to, uh, people.

People who have made it this far or have listened to this whole episode. And the concept is really that a personal referral is the most valuable form of marketing currency. There is, and I’ve said this a little bit before, but algorithms change, uh, social media becomes obsolete, but opinions do not change of you.

And the more that you can spend time focusing on these relationships with people, that’s the thread through this whole thing is building relationships, seeing people as where they’re at, making them feel seen, heard and understood. There have been so many times where venue coordinators took me from one venue to another one because I got to deliver one venue and they really love me.

They love the way that I work. They love that I made their job easy and it took me from one place to the next. So it’s how can you build up these referrals? And that’s what this whole entire series is about. It’s about that the referral is the most valuable form of marketing currency. But so many of us don’t put enough time into the one to one space, the, the, the relationship building side of things.

I think, um, in practice, what this looks like is all the stuff that I’ve talked about, um, prior to this, uh, about building relationships, but also there’s, you know, uh, one, uh, another short story is about every time that I would go visit a venue and I would always bring them something. I would always bring them like a little succulent or something like that at the behest of my wife and a friend of mine who’s a wedding coordinator.

They would always say you have to bring something along. And the amount of those coordinators, whoever I’d go there and I would give them this little 7 succulent I got from Lowe’s, they would always laugh. And I would say, you know, if you’re like me, you work inside a lot and you want to bring, you know, I’m just, I’m hoping that this will bring a little bit of outside inside.

And every single one of those coordinators when I came back for the wedding that I was working, you know, because I’m visiting, because I’m shooting a wedding there in a couple months or whatever, every single one of them said that they still had it on their, on their desk. I just wanted this reason for this.

Way for me to show up, thank the person in there, but also not see that person as a means to an end. They’re not something that I’m just trying to get business from, like if I get business from awesome, but like I just want people to feel good when they’re around me and I want them to feel their best and comfortable and feel totally disarmed by me being around them and just to feel again, seen, heard and understood.

So that’s the end of this series. Um, what stuck out to you out of these four concepts, right? That first one was. that knowledge is power. The second one was, you know, how to truly differentiate yourself. The third one was being along for that journey, not just the wedding day or not just the session. And this last one is about seeking positive emotion to anchor to.

First, what story stuck out to you? What’s one of these concepts was like, yes, I’m going to try to do this thing, or I see it this way. Will you write to me or go to at Daniel Moyer coaching on Instagram and just send me a note and just be like, this landed with me. This was awesome. I really like this or this is dumb.

I don’t know. Whatever it is. Like, I just, I’d love some feedback and hear how you are implementing these things and what really stuck out to you because that informs how I can share these things and what’s valuable to you right now. And if you’re listening to this in real time, it’s 2024. or June 2024.

Anyway, hit me up at Daniel Moyer coaching or you can email me Daniel at Daniel Moyer coaching. That’s what I’m here for. I love to hear from you. I love to just have conversations outside the life coaching space. Hit me up. I’m so glad to hear from you, all my listeners. So thanks so much. Thanks so much for tuning in, make it a great day and I will talk to you all soon.

+ show Comments

- Hide Comments

add a comment

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You can search episodes by topic, guest, series, and so much more. The world is at your finger tips!

I'm Dan! Life Coach, Photographer, Extreme Empath, and Podcaster.

I'm a full time wedding photographer since Jan. 2010.
Smitten Husband since 2014
Dad x Three (one plus twins), certified life coach, Phillies fan and extreme empath. 

more about me

hey there!

Get control of your money and feel good about it.

get it now


Feeling scattered and unfocused? Gain clarity with this 5 minute exercise.

Download now

Free download

 Top Resources

If money management 
gives you the sweats, 
this guide is for you.​
Within this guide is how I systemized my business finances, got comfortable with a budget, paid myself a regular paycheck, crushed over $70k of debt in 4 years and have more financial freedom than ever.
Thank you! Check your inbox for the download!
If money management 
gives you the sweats, 
this guide is for you.​
Within this guide is how I systemized my business finances, got comfortable with a budget, paid myself a regular paycheck, crushed over $70k of debt in 4 years and have more financial freedom than ever.
Thank you! Check your inbox for the download!

Business & Life Coaching
for Photographers

Daniel Moyer Coaching

© daniel moyer coaching 2024  |  Design by Tonic 

1:1 Coaching

follow along 
on Instagram:

get in touch >


@danielmoyercoaching >