What is my strategy for building meaningful connections with my clients? Today’s episode is a trip down memory lane and a replay of the very first podcast I ever recorded, as a guest on the Tog Republic Podcast with Carolina Guzik. I have always felt extremely passionate about going above and beyond what is expected of a wedding photographer, and I shared some of my best tips with Carolina about forming connections that last for years after the wedding.
The Focused Photographers Podcast was created based on the idea that the most incredible tool for learning is a deep dive into any given topic from multiple perspectives. Join us every other week as we explore important topics, with host Daniel Moyer and a variety of guests offering different perspectives! Make sure you’ve hit that follow or subscribe button on your favorite podcast player to get notified each week as we air new episodes!
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REVIEW THE SHOW NOTES
Get to know Daniel (2:38)
Creating a deeply personal client experience (4:44)
Cultivating relationships with couples months before the wedding (17:11)
The wedding rings strategy (21:58)
Giving client gifts (27:58)
Maintaining the client relationship after the wedding (33:08)
Asking for testimonials and referrals (37:55)
Relating to your clients in new stages of life (48:15)
Key marketing tip from Daniel (54:21)
Creating education through Focused Photographers (56:14)
MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE
Focused Photographers Referral Building Worksheet
CONNECT WITH CAROLINA GUZIK
CONNECT WITH DANIEL MOYER
Website: WWW.DANIELMOYERPHOTOGRAPHY.COM
Wedding Instagram: @DANIELMOYERPHOTO
Business Instagram: @GETFOCUSEDPHOTOGRAPHERS
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Thank you!
-Dan
Review the Transcript:
Dan Moyer
Hey photography friends welcome to the focus photographers podcast where photographers gather. I’m your host Dan Moyer and today I am taking you down memory lane. I’m taking it back to where it all started. And that is an episode that’s not even from this podcast. It’s from the very first podcast the very first recording of me anywhere and that was on Carolina Guzik’s podcast called The tug Republic. This episode aired originally as episode 140. So if you’re not a subscriber her if you don’t know who she is, check out the tog Republic. She’s amazing. This is the first podcast I was ever on its way before I even started this podcast. But Carolina is such a powerful force for good in the photography world. She continues to be a friend today, and she’s one of my biggest supporters, and one of the biggest cheerleaders for other people as well as like really doing a lot of amazing things for her own community. And I’m so thankful for her. So this episode, you’re going to hear her leading the conversation and asking me a ton of questions. This was the first topic that I was really passionate about, and something that I knew that I was doing a lot differently. And that is building strong connections with your couples so strongly that they are going to sing your praises for years and years to come from the rooftops and shouting your name and giving you all kinds of referrals and all that stuff. And speaking of referrals the last thing before we jump into this episode is to go to focus photographers.com/referral-building that’s focused photographers.com/referral-building and download the guy that’s going to help you put a lot of this conversation into action. Okay, so now let’s get to the show with yours truly talking about building strong connections with your clients. And that was originally hosted by Carolyn Gusa. Let’s get it going.
Carolina Guzik
Hello, everybody, and welcome to another episode of the talk Republic. I’m Karina gusik. And today we have a very special guest. His name is Daniel and I am so excited because we actually talk about a topic that I mean we have kind of like mentioned it several times, but we have never actually dive deep into this topic of referrals and how to make your clients so happy that they sent all your friends your way. Daniel, how are you doing today?
Dan Moyer
I am very good. I’m very happy. This is like dad’s afternoon out for me and have a little break from the madness around here. So I’m happy to be here.
Carolina Guzik
Good shout out to all the dads and moms that you know are you know, still working on taking care of kids. Yep. Awesome. So
Carolina Guzik
well tell me other than, you know, taking care of kids and being a great photographers. What else do you do? And what kind of photography actually do you do?
Dan Moyer
I am a primarily wedding photographer, but I also have a side business that’s, well, another division of my business that’s separate from weddings and portraits. That is real estate and like headshots, commercial work, that kind of thing. But I’m out of the Philly area, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, married for seven years kids, twins, and a blind optimist that’s about describes me Dad, husband, photographer, blind optimist done.
Carolina Guzik
Sounds good. I like those, you
Carolina Guzik
know, especially the blind optimist. I think that’s such a great quality to have always, you know, finding
Dan Moyer
true or false sometimes.
Carolina Guzik
That’s good. That’s so good to have.
Carolina Guzik
So I asked in my Instagram Stories, who people wanted to hear from I have been following you because you also have kind of like a separate business other than photography where you you know, teach photographers, if you want, go ahead and tell us a little bit about that. But what I was saying is like, I asked people who they wanted to hear from, and several people were like, Oh, you need to interview Daniel, he’s so good at referral. He’s had like seven couples at our wedding at one time. I’m like, what I need to hear from this
Carolina Guzik
guy.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, it’s, um, it’s a that’s a very broad question, right to start with. But it is true that I do get a lot of referrals, right, like I’m in the very beginning. And I’ve been doing this for over a decade now full time. And, you know, over the last couple of years, you know, just even in the pandemic, I had a wedding ahead for my past couples there another wedding that had three. So pretty regularly. I have three couples, but a few years ago, there were seven couples that whose weddings I’d all photographed over the past decade, all this one wedding. And then a year after that it was five couples and then last year it was four and then another five, and it just I just get into these little pools of friends and they all share my name and we can get into specifics about you know, kind of how I designed that experience and that kind of thing.
Carolina Guzik
How awesome so obviously we’re talking about something that is really niche down down to like, how do you get all these referrals but like, let’s kind of like zoom out a little bit, because I am assuming that even before the referral. This all starts with the actual experience that the client let’s call client a If so what kind of experience client a gets to have when they hire you.
Dan Moyer
So I would say if I were to distill it down to maybe like one or two ideas, one is that I seek to blur the line between what the typical client photographer a couple photographer relationship looks like. And that is done, I think through if you’ve ever seen this book. It’s called The Power of moments by Chip Heath and Dan Heath, and they talk about this, this idea that when you walk, walk into a restaurant, there’s this expected sequence of events that you’re going to have, right? Do you walk into a restaurant and there’s going to be a hostess is going to come get you, they’re gonna sit you down, they’re gonna ask your appetizer order your drink order, they’re gonna come get your main meal. And they’re gonna ask you how you’re doing as you’d like, take a bite of a burger with and you got to say, like, things are really great with a burger sauce over your hands and face, right. But there’s this, like, there’s just these checkboxes of things that you expect are going to happen. And the same happens with weddings, clients come to us with a whole bunch of expectations from weddings that they’ve been in, from doing research online, from attending weddings, all of these things, I think it’s our job, to take that experience, whatever they’re expecting, and completely flip the script and Institute or Institute insert moments of surprise and delight that completely throw them for a loop. And so that’s the basis of really what I tried to do. All on this idea of it being like, extremely. And the second part of this is that it’s extremely, deeply personal. Like I’ve done, you know, many people, I’m sure you’ve done hundreds of weddings, right? Correct. But just because like the framework of weddings is the same for all of us. Generally speaking, they all have a similar flow, they have a ceremony, the reception, but the circumstances and history that have brought this couple who’s sitting across the table from you, today are so vastly different, right? their goals, their priorities, why they’re getting married, who’s important to them, all that is totally, totally different, right? So I just treat each couple like an alien, or like that I’m an alien, right. And I’m coming here and I have know nothing about these people. Even though the the framework and circumstances are similar. The history that’s brought them today is so vastly different. So that’s how I approach them.
Carolina Guzik
Sounds good, I love all these concepts, but my brain needs detail.
Dan Moyer
I knew I wasn’t gonna get away with that I was gonna get away with this, like, macro view of it. So
Carolina Guzik
I know this is special to you. And I don’t I mean, you don’t have to go into every step. Right. But like, let’s say, you know, we’re talking about I completely love the fact that you said that, even though weddings are in general, similar, right? Like, two people come together to celebrate love, there is a ceremony, there is a reception on the roof in between them some romantic photos, speeches and party, right? That’s kind of like the framework. But then each, as you said, each couple is unique, right? Each couple has different views, values. And I like the fact that you said that when you you know, we’re gonna get into this kind of like gifting and things like that, that each couple is unique, because nothing bothers me most than a general present or something like that. I mean, this is for me, I, one of my love languages is not gifting. So definitely not I don’t need gifts to like, actually, I don’t give gifts to my clients. But I’m really excited to find out about this and about this situation, because I’m also thinking that it might not have to be a gift, it can be some other form of appreciation, right? Yep. Let’s say that a couple comes to you. Right, you get an inquiry today. Walk me a little bit without, you know, without giving away your secret recipe, but like, you know, maybe a hands up, what do you do?
Dan Moyer
I’ll share anything, right? Because I think what I do is I have a couple of like, general principles that I think are universal. So everybody else is going to hear these things, I hope, hear these things to say, Oh, that’s interesting. I’m going to interpret it this way. Right? I think the overarching principles that are every single one of us wants to be seen, heard and understood or understood can be swapped out with with loved right. So everybody wants to be seen, heard and loved. New couple inquires with me, and I’m sitting down across the table from them. I think a lot of photographers go to that meeting, thinking that this meeting is a a journey of discovery of the couple learning about them as the photographer, right, how many awards they’ve won, what their approach is, what gear they use, I don’t know that kind of stuff, right? For me, this is a journey of discovery about them as a couple. So instead of asking anything about the wedding, like a fun game for myself, where I want to see how long I can talk to them without asking them anything about the wedding. Okay, nothing at all. I’ll let them bring up the wedding first book. Some of my favorite questions are things like, you know, take me to a time when you know so and so had you doubled over laughing right? Like what what was it about that moment that had you connected or um As you start sitting down, you talk with them. I think, as you start asking these questions, people give you like a basic answer, right? They give you like the answer, because most of us listen, to respond, not listen to understand. So I’ll start with a very general question. How did this come together? What’s your story? How did we get to today? And they’ll like, you know, fly through their quick history. Oh, and then we got engaged and blah, blah, blah. And I’m like, Alright, no, wait, wait, stop. You know, take me to the first day who made the first move, right? And then you go from there, and you start funneling down to two. Okay? When did it go from? Here’s this person who’s fun to hang out with and spend time with? All right, here’s the person I want to spend the rest of my life with. Right? And then you get this answer that’s maybe a little bit deeper. And all it’s but it’s still not there. Like, it’s I just keep following up using their language, it’s still out there, you’re still not getting to the meat of like, what does this person sitting next to them mean to them? Right. So I, I often will model how I want people to respond with sharing the story about my wife and I, we’ve been together for a little bit over 11 years, actually, today that we’re recording. This is the nine year anniversary of me asking her to marry me. So
Carolina Guzik
congrats on that anniversary.
Dan Moyer
Thank you. So you know, maybe a year or so into our relationship, we’re like walking through Target, and we’re chit chatting, and, and having a good time. And I’m six foot three, she’s five foot four. So she can very easily be out of my peripheral vision, right. And so like, I realized that she’s like, we’re walking and talking, and then all sudden, she’s like, not next to me anymore at all. So I turn around, and she’s like, aisles and aisles back and she’s got this, this massive pink heart pillow in front of her body, and she’s holding it up and it covers her entire body. That’s why the height thing is important. And she’s holding this pillow. And she’s doing like this little shimmy shake. Right? And it’s just like you love me. You love me, like do not cutesy stuff that that people do, right? I said, Yeah, babe, I do love you, right. And I remember seeing this very particular look on her face, right? It wasn’t the first time I said, I love you. But I just remember noticing her in this different way. Right? I think that all couples have this moment where they see each other differently. Right? They see their significant other in a very different way than everybody else gets to see them. Right? Because they spend time together because they’re romantic because they’re intimate because they’re, you know, they’re they have adventures together, whatever that looks like. And so I tell that story. And I asked that question. So when was this moment when you saw him or her differently? When was that moment that you knew that this was the person want to spend the rest of your life with what what what is the quintessential version of of Karolina, that that like only you get to see, then you start understanding what this person means them. And there’s also some, some tangible things in there that you can start to look for on the wedding day to create something that’s truly meaningful, right? I had this one Kurume, who’s a surgeon, and he said that he loves the jaw line of his soon to be wife their wedding is actually this May. And he says he does because there’s this this nerve that runs through her chin, or like the it was very all of her like hyper medical technical things. But it was just funny. And so like, it’s not, I didn’t look for like her chin, but you know, just putting them in snugly situations where, where he could like put his hand up on her neck and just I’m just trying to find little things, right. So I think my job is about the time that wedding day rolls around, that I can photograph one of them. If I’m talking about a heterosexual couple that I can talk, I can photograph the bride the way the groom sees her and the groom the way the bride sees him. Right. I think that’s my job.
Carolina Guzik
Very emotional approach, I would say right, and I think it’s not for everybody. I’m gonna, I had this conversation in the past, when like, you know, I’ve seen this approach to weddings, and I think it’s lovely. I think it’s really emotional. I think it’s fantastic. I think that for me, Karolina in this particular way, I think that is a cultural thing. Because in Colombians like it is very non polite to ask these questions when you first meet somebody. Yep. So I think when I approach my weddings, yes, of course, I want to know, little details. And I have, you know, taught myself how to ask some questions, but I couldn’t like I try that approach. And I’m like, oh, culturally, I can go there.
Carolina Guzik
We can. So what’s your question?
Dan Moyer
Here’s a question for you then. So what to? What does that meeting look like for you in that first thing then? Right? Because, because I don’t actually think that it’s inherently in an emotional approach. I speak about it with I’m in a hyper emotional person, but it doesn’t you don’t have people don’t have to make it emotional. It could just be that you’re trying to discover, you know, what’s important to them, right? Because I think a lot of people will say, Oh, I have a very personal approach. So my job instead of saying that, I want to show them that from the very moment that I just want to know who they are. So I can ultimately take photographs that are very meaningful to them. Correct. So
Carolina Guzik
this is unfortunately also extremely pragmatic, right. So Yes, I want to know about them. But I want to know about how I can be efficient on their day. So those are kind of like the questions that I’m asking, right? Obviously, I asked like, what’s important to you? And what’s meaningful, because then I can, you know, focus on those things. But I never go like so. So into like, well tell me more, let’s dive deeper. Like, even talking right now about it. I’m
Dan Moyer
just like, Oh, it is a very, very different approach. Right. And so what’s interesting, though, is that approach is me knowing what to focus on on the wedding day, right? So I think of myself as like a student of the couple, knowing all that stuff and doing a very deep dive. And so being able to triage the things that aren’t important. So I know exactly what to focus on. So it’s just a different, it’s just a different way of doing it. Right. Like, it’s definitely not an approach for everybody. That is
Carolina Guzik
correct. No, no, and
Carolina Guzik
it’s good. And again, I think that’s one of the great things about being in business, or, at least for me is like learning that there’s many ways to get to the result, you know, there is different roads that we can all take to get the results that we need. But I do like this, because I think that it’s important, I think that obviously, when you connect with somebody in kind of like a little bit more personal way, or like maybe what I’m trying to say here is when when the couples feels seen, I think that’s I think that’s really, really important. And I try to do that with my couples on kind of like, on my style, right? I think, for me, in my personal life, it’s really important to, to give attention to people like I want people when I when they’re when I’m with them, they’re spending time that they know that my attention is unconditional. Yep. So I think that’s so so anyway, so let’s say let’s kind of keep moving this needle. So they book here, right? Because X, X, Y or Z, you know, they’re like, this is fantastic. What happens then, because most of the times, you know, couples book you under wedding, it’s 678 a year away from that day. So there is a lot of, you know, a bunch of months in between that, again, for a lot of photographers is like radio, silence is like, Okay, you book me talk to you maybe by see you two weeks before your wedding, right, when I need to get my department retainer, or whatever it is, what is the missing opportunity here? What how should we cultivating this, you know, relationships?
Dan Moyer
A very good question. I’m going to add something on to the previous statement that sometimes I do you have couples who are or appreciate this, like very personal approach, but have that guard up, right? Because I’m a very hyper, very open person. And sometimes that’s a lot for people, right? Correct. So I won’t, I’ll give them that kind of taste of it, and and show them my approach. But then I’ll just I’ll kind of go what I said into what I said before about it just being a me being a student of them, right. This is it’s a lot to cover in like a one hour first, correct? Yes. So it’s just about building that trust. And so a lot of times it takes people longer time to build that trust than just that first meeting. So then on to your second question, which was what happens next, right, and I think you hit the nail on the head, a lot of people will end up getting it, they get that that check, they get the contract. And they’re like, Alright, peace, I’m done. I’m out for for the next year or whatever. So I have some very basic touch points that I tell them that I’m going to send over. And that is I send them obviously some some things about information about the wedding, how it works with me how what’s, you know, what, how to get the best photographs, that kind of thing. But that’s just like the foundation, right? Those are the expected touch points, I regularly reach out to my couples, right. So I do send like a handwritten note, things like that. But this is where I start to try to blur that line. Right. So I will seek out ways to spend time with my couple, right? Because I think, I think the the more that the couple trusts me, the more likely they are to buy more from me correct. So I’m not so focused on how much couples spend at the time of signing, because I know that I can almost I can usually double what they what they signed for by the time, they’re all said and done with me after the wedding. So that comes to obviously being in touch via email. But also, if we can, right now, obviously, we’re in a pandemic. So we’re not really getting together at restaurants and things like that. But I tried to do a like a zoom happy hour or so my couples or FaceTime happy hour, we just catch up for 30 minutes in the evening at eight o’clock or 830 and just catch up about how things are going how the wedding planning is going and just be people for a minute. Forget about the cameras forget about the wedding, if that comes up awesome. But I tried to just to just blur that line, right? Like how how often do we just call our friends to say to check in and say hey, how are you? Regular I think and I just do that regularly with my couples. So I’m not a wedding factory. I’d shoot 20 weddings a year and that’s my cap and that allows me to focus more on each individual couple. Love this. So So again, I’m probably not gonna get away with telling you just about, but it’s also kind of like a macro view. No, but
Carolina Guzik
no, no, but this is really good because I think I think this is when each person whoever’s listening to this podcast is gonna, you know, find, you know, kind of like take it and make it their own right. Like, for me, as we’re saying, like, for me that the first meeting is quite pragmatic, right? Yes, we talk about I talk about things that I’m sure other photographers haven’t spoken about, because they even mentioned that, like, Oh, you’re the first person to mention this. I’m like, thank you note. For me, because I don’t get again, culturally like that first meeting for me, I, I can’t get myself to be like, Oh, tell me all these little emotional things. But that’s what I have eight months to, like, start finding out these little details. Even though I’m not like best friends with my clients, because, again, personally, I’m not like that. But I do like to be in touch with them. And I think that one of the simple things that you can do is like, when you follow them on social media, just comment on what’s happening, right, are posting everything on, you know, Instagram stories and things like that. So like, I get to know like, about their dogs or their pets, or if they’re into, like, you know, any kind of workout that I might like, so like, I can comment on that and start building those kinds of like little kind of like friendship moments, that obviously can expand, right. And as you said, once a couple trust you, it’s easier to send a DM or to be like, hey, anything that I can help you with, let’s jump on a phone call. I tried to do that a lot with my couples because I feel like I once again, my love language is acts of service. For me, really important
Speaker 3
in my relationships, so like, I tried to give that to like, you know,
Carolina Guzik
it’s funny because sometimes it’s like, Oh, those are your kind of like love languages now like the kind of your your clients love language. It’s what I how I like giving love so like showing people that I’m that I’m you know that I’m that I’m attentive to them? Yeah.
Dan Moyer
Trusted Advisor is likely Yeah, I love being a trusted advisor with them. Alright, so this is something that I’ve been working on over the last two years. And I think it’s something that gives me a reason to reach out and, and so I’m, I don’t like questionnaires. I hate them. Well, let’s put it this way. For logistics and details. Yes, questionnaires are great. And what I love doing is like, obviously, follow my couples on social media. But I love just like a friend would you know, you see something happen there, and then you talk about it the next time you catch up with them on the phone or an email, right? It just, it just solidifies that normal relationship. But I also solidify those relationships by being very open about my personal life. So obviously, all my couples know right now that I went from having a normal work week to basically working two hours a day because I have three kids, and my wife works from home from 6am to 230. She’s in the corporate world. So I’m very open with that. And they’re very understanding about that. But I’ve been working on this thing I call the wedding rings. And if you think of a bullseye or a target, in the center as the couple, right, the wedding is mostly about them, most of the pictures are going to be about them. So they’re in the center, right? And then you have this next ring that’s just outside of the center. In that first ring is the people who are the most important to them. Usually I say like the the two or three people max that are the most important to you. Why are they important to and so I’ll I’ll send this information out, hey, and I described this to them, I described this idea to them, and they, they write in that first ring, who’s the most important people and then why. And then I follow that up with a phone call. Maybe a month or so later, and we chat about it. And I just understand a little bit more about why those people are important, right, then there’s the next string who’s the most important as a lot of times it’s you can sort of predict it, its parents and siblings through that first ring. And then the next ring out is maybe wedding party or there’s aunts and uncles and you just learn about these relationships. And then when you get to the wedding day, you’re like, oh, I need to focus on this person here. And you now you just you have this information that’s gathered bales of the story behind it and it just helps you and I’ve got tons of stories about that if I just would have thought of the wedding as the couple’s wedding day I would have missed these massive massive storylines and it all came from this idea of like the wedding rings so I think
Carolina Guzik
such a great point and and once again I think that being a wedding photographer is so many layers right and just the wedding day is like your brain you have to be so so aware of like hyper aware I think right because yes you’re focusing on the you know the couple that and there is also as you said there is like if you had asked the right questions you know why grandma is so important and you know you know why you know best friends are coming from far away you know whatever the case is and also you know focus in those images because once again yes the expected as the beautiful pictures of the couple right that’s what’s expected. What is not expected. What is not expected is those little in between moments that you can either call because it’s like you know happening kind of like photo are unrealistic or actually make it you know, make it an effort for you on your end to be like, Hey, I know your grandma is really important to you. Let’s have like a little 10 minutes here with grandma. Yeah. And you can have formals. And also, you know, candidates, but I think those things are I think that what’s, as you were mentioned, that couples really appreciate because it’s not what is expected. Yep. So, so important to be extremely hyper aware, during, you know, before and also also during the wedding day, because I also think that prior to the wedding, the couple, it’s a lot happening to them. And they might even miss those little moments, right? Because, yes, Grandma is super important. But right now, it’s like 500, other things that they need to focus on. But on the wedding day, if you’re hyper aware, you can see you can feel you can, you know, experience that with them. So I think that’s really, really important, and so difficult to achieve. Sometimes
Dan Moyer
it is, it’s so much to try to like, figure out all these things. And that’s why I think I again, I treat it as like studying for the wedding day, right? Because you can’t study for test day, like if you show up on the wedding day, and like you don’t know, like just these very basic things about family members, or, like, ever more. I know, I have a friend who like very beginning stages of my career, I was second shooting with him. And he didn’t know that the father, the groom had passed away. And it’s like, very basic things like that, you have to know and you show up on the wedding day. And thankfully, he didn’t say anything. But like, I’m glad I didn’t say anything, either, because I’m showing up to photograph the groom. And I don’t know that his dad’s passed away, it would have been really great information for me to have. But yeah, it’s just these like very, super basic things that make all the difference in in being able to provide meaningful photographs. You know,
Carolina Guzik
I want to I want to actually put you on my Instagrams when you said like, you like studying for a test. And I think this is so important, right? You need all this information to be able to perform at your best. And also not to make a fool of yourself, or to put the couple in an uncomfortable situation during the wedding day, right? Nothing worse than you know. I said, you know, like calling somebody that had passed, like, Hey, where’s so and so on? It’s like, no longer here. That’s awkward. Yes. So we don’t we try to avoid those situations. So awesome. You create beautiful pictures. Everybody has a great time during the wedding day. Oh, one little tip that I do. And I’m sure you do the same. When I see a couple at a wedding, right and maybe during dinner time, you know, when the time that I’m not kind of like photographing anything, I might go and get them for a second and be like, Hey, let
Speaker 3
me get some like cute photos of the two of you. And I do that. While they’re like getting a drink at the bar. And blend. You know, happy everybody gets.
Dan Moyer
Love it before you asked about gifts before? Oh, yeah.
Carolina Guzik
Well, let’s talk about that. Because I know this is kind of like
Dan Moyer
a relationship is a hot topic. Some people are like, Yes, I love that. You’re like, Oh, my photographs are the gifts.
Carolina Guzik
I am the gift. I am the gift. Yep. Yeah. So that’s a hot topic. So I’d love to hear what what do you think about it? Or what kind of gifts? If you do gifts? What do you do?
Dan Moyer
Good question. So doing a gift for the sake of doing a gift is like a thank you for booking. I’m not a fan of that, like just a gift for for any gifts sake. I think it has to have an intention behind it right. And so my intention comes from again, when my wife and I were planning our wedding. It was obviously I’m a wedding photographer and leading up to our wedding was very intense, right. And so we decided that at this like two week mark, you’re going to have a like a weekend getaway to kind of reconnect as a couple. And I remember like going away to the beach. We went away from the beach to the beach that weekend. It was great. And I remember being super stressed. Over like, once that three month mark hit we were so stressed and all that stress melted away on that, like beach weekend, it was great. And I thought of this idea of like a date night like, man, you just like you just couples just forget about what normal life is like, yeah, in those last three months up to the wedding day, right. And every single one of my couples I’ve talked to a lot of them, I get to that last little bit. They’re like, Oh, we just can’t wait to be on the honeymoon. Right? Which is sad. And I remember hearing that more and more a couple years ago, I was like What can I do to elevate these people and remind them that the whole joy behind a wedding day is to have all your friends and family under one roof for happy reason. Right? So that’s what we focus on. And so I just I decided to create a date night box and at the three month mark, I send them this box that’s just got like champagne and it’s gourmet popcorn and just some other like chocolates and some other like fun little things, nothing fancy. But it’s and I just send a note that’s like listen, right now is the time of your planning when you are most at risk for forgetting what the wedding day is all about. So take this date night box and when you feel stressed out you have to use it before the Wedding it’s it’s the essentials for a date night. So just use it right I put iced coffee in to like these iced coffee packets, they’re delicious. And they they use that for this essentials date night to reconnect as a couple and get refocused on what the wedding day is about, and the amount of kids amount of couples who reach out and they’re just like, I can’t believe that you sent this, right. And again, it’s like, I’m not a business person. In that moment. I’m not a photographer, I’m just somebody who cares about marriage, and I care about their marriage and, and setting them up for a wedding day that is joyous and fun. And if I can just help them refocus that little tiny bit, then I’ve, you know,
Carolina Guzik
that’s so good. Because I love what you said that just give them for the sake of gifting looses, you know, its value, right? I mean, I think you get this nice, but it’s really gonna move the needle, probably not, right? Because also, I think that the couple probably think, like, I put myself in the in the shoes of the couple, right? I just pay, you know, my deposit, which is yes, 1000s of dollars, and I’m gonna pay you like the total balance gonna be 1000s of dollars, right? And you just send me like a little, you know, whatever, matching glasses and whatever. Stuff that you put in a box. I’ll be just like, yeah, no, it feels cheap.
Dan Moyer
And now it feels like well, my mind actually, at that moment goes right to like, Well, maybe you should take the cost of the gift off of my package balance. And give me a discount, right. But But I think the point of this is like, the it can’t be a thank you for booking gift, right? I get it like, I do write a just a nice handwritten note saying I’m looking forward to it, that kind of thing. But that’s, I think that’s it at the time. Oh, yeah, exactly. That’s expected. But then there’s this like, again, it’s I remember what that time was like in my wedding planning process. And I also know what really stressful weddings are like to photograph. Right. So this is like this one little thing. It comes out of the blue. It just shows up at their house. I don’t email them. I don’t tell them about it. It just arrives at their house. That’s it.
Carolina Guzik
I love this. Yeah. So good. So good.
Carolina Guzik
And once again, a good reminder and also in a world that is completely Instagram. Instagrammable. Is that even a word? I’m sure that I’m sure
Dan Moyer
they made it. That’s good. Okay. Instagrammable. I’m sure
Speaker 3
that that also that’s social media kind of like interaction comes up, right? I’m
Carolina Guzik
sure that they post about it. They’re like, hey, my photographer is just amazing. Look, I’m
Dan Moyer
not saying that there’s that’s not a benefit of what I do. People taking pictures of him posting on their Instagram, and then somebody else going, what is your photographer say this? Yeah,
Speaker 3
it’s a side effect. side effect of the press, and you’re sending them? Oh, good. Alrighty. So
Carolina Guzik
we go to the wedding pictures are amazing is the time of delivering, you know, you give them the photos, they buy extra because, you know, you did such a great job of actually creating pictures. And of course, once again, it’s expected, right, they pay a bunch of money for you, it’s expected that you deliver you also give them you know, great experience throughout. How do you handle this after this is like a goodbye. Great. It was nice meeting you, ciao, or what happens after this?
Dan Moyer
So I think the the after the wedding is is a, it’s not after the wedding. It’s just a natural extension of the other things that have happened even before the wedding. I’m offering them things to buy throughout the process. Okay, right. So I don’t I don’t have engagement sessions on my package list my wedding package list. It’s something that only if couples will reach out to me and say, Hey, we want to do this. And it’s a whole separate set of calls. It’s a whole separate date, it’s true to completely separate from the wedding day, because lots of other people are dealing with the wedding day, a lot of other people add money into the wedding day and expectation can happen with that money, right? Correct. My treat, though, the I actually named it something different and actually comes from another mentor, Steve separado, who calls it a forever session. Right? Okay, totally separate from the wedding day, and a lot of people will, the session is designed around it being just for them. So that might be a couple $1,000 that they might add on. Then it’s at that at that at the last meeting before the before the wedding, right? I’m sitting down. And we go, we’re going over the timeline together. So we get together for that. And we’re going to timeline and family formals and who’s important. And hey, your eight hours are in your package. This is the timeline, we figured out does that cover everything that you want? Well, now they might add an extra two to four hours. It’s another 500 or 1000 or $1,200. And it’s just these little things money spent is money forgotten. So it’s just these little things across the you know, throughout the process of adding on here a little bit there a little bit there. And it’s not I’m not pressuring them. It’s just I’m allowing them the opportunity to add
Carolina Guzik
you just press it you know, I feel like sometimes people are like, Oh, I just want to give full day coverage because it’s great for the client. I’m like, Oh, well it’s not great for my First of all, and to like I, like I offer, as you are you offer collections that are hourly based, right? And then I sit with them and I present, you know, here, this is your timeline with the best usage of your time. And it’s up to them if they want to add more like, I’m just presenting exactly how their time is gonna be spent. And then they are they actually making the call? I’m not saying okay, I think that you need to add an extra hour I just presented, and then they feel like, Oh, this feels a little bit tight. What about if we do this or that, at the end of the day, I am fully in control of the decisions that are happening, right?
Dan Moyer
Yep. But at least but you won’t make that extra money. If you don’t at least say hey, here’s what you have, would you like more? Correct. So then after the wedding, obviously, the next thing is, is an album. Almost all my couples, I tell them at the time of booking I was like, pretty much my entire package list is based off of two things, they have to make two choices, choose if they want an album or not, and then choose what additional items they want to add on. And I just tell them flat on like, whatever package you decide to choose is up to you. But most couples choose the album essentials package with an additional photographer, that’s what most people purchase. And so most people end up buying that. So then that sets me up for later with an album design consultation where we get together. And it’s funny. If I’m if I were to calculate my hourly rate on this, it’s probably down but my joy is very high. I’ll go to my couples homes a lot of times for their album design consultation, and that some people who are like are like hyper productive productivity, people are gonna like be screaming at me through this, where it’s not unusual for it to be like a five hour design consultation where two hours of it is actually designing the album, but they have ordered dinner and they get some wine and they catch up with me and that kind of thing. Because the whole time, it has been an experience of having somebody who feels like a friend by the time the wedding day rolls around. Now, you can be very friendly with your clients. And you can have a very personal business, but you don’t have to take your business personally. So there’s definitely still a line. But I show up to that album design consultation, the same person I’ve been through the entire experience, it’s not, let’s get the sale. Now let’s make the money. Now, it’s this couple I’m going to I created an album designed for them. And I’m going to give them the option to create something that is the ultimate representation of their day. And if they if they cut all the photographs out all the way down to the 70 or 50 that were included in their package, that’s fine if they add an extra 100 Awesome, but I’m the same person through that whole entire experience. And then after a design consultation, I’ll either try to drop it off or I’ll get it sent there. And then a lot of couples contact me later for maternity and baby and newborn and it’s just the natural extension of being along for the journey with my couples.
Carolina Guzik
I have a very similar approach to to this and I like it so awesome. Okay, so you deliver the album All is good. Do you actually ask for a testimonial and referrals?
Dan Moyer
I do actually ask for the testimonial in the after the wet referral. Nope, sorry, not referral testimonial my bed. Immediately after the wedding. Maybe that Monday or something? I’ll send an email. It’s like, hey, pictures are downloaded. They’re backed up so they’re safe to this was awesome. Can’t wait to get the photographs to you. It’s going to take this long three, if you’d like head to Wedding Wire, and you can leave me a review there. And that’s the only time i i mentioned reviews.
Carolina Guzik
Okay, awesome. So that’s it, then do you ask for referrals?
Dan Moyer
I do not explicitly ask for referrals. Okay,
Carolina Guzik
so you don’t say like, Hey, if you have friends who are getting married, send them my way.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, one time I tried to put like this like snarky thing on Instagram that was like, so your best friend got engaged winky face. And it fell completely flat. And I think again, I’m gonna go way back to the very beginning about like being along for the journey and blurring this line, right. So one of my couples early on was like the three month mark to the wedding, Deirdre, and Brendan, they live in Delaware, which is just a little, maybe like an hour and 15 minute drive. And they said, Hey, will you come down here, I hadn’t gotten to meet them in person. And we’d only done video because they lived over an hour away. And I went down there and the groom worked as a bike shop. And he brought home a bike. And they already have two bikes, I said, hey, they said, Hey, we’re gonna, we’re gonna ride around Delaware, we’re gonna show you some spots. You want to take pictures that we’re gonna, we’re gonna grab dinner. And then we’ll just hang out afterwards. And we will talk about the timeline, whatever. So it was like a mix of business and pleasure. And so that couple had come from another couple who had already photographed, there was a third couple in that friend group who had not hired me, that’s fine. And when that couple who didn’t hire me heard about me going down to Delaware to like ride bikes and do the timeline and all these things. They were like, Wait, why is he Why is he going down there? And they said, Well, you just come down, hang out with us get to know us a little bit to the timeline stuff and The last couple of weeks in harmony said, Oh, our photographer just said that he would get in touch with us the week of the wedding. And I think a lot of my couples see that and a lot of siblings, like I photographed almost all the siblings, siblings and several families that just comes to being present and invested in their families and in their relationships. And I think that is why so many couples and friend groups end up hiring me because I talk with everybody on the wedding day. I’m friends with everybody on the wedding day. And I just try to be a normal person, rather than just a photographer.
Carolina Guzik
I love this. Have you ever had, let’s say, a set of siblings when let’s say you photograph three of them, and then one you kind of like had an interview? And then they went with somebody else? Yep.
Dan Moyer
Yeah, there’s three sisters, and I love them all. The oldest sister got married, then the middle one and then the youngest one. And I remember like, but in all honesty, I feel like part of it was my, my issue. Okay, I walked into that meeting, the groom didn’t really know me because he was sort of came along later than the older sisters siblings. So I walked into that meeting think I got this. And that is the wrong thing to think when you’re walking into a meeting, because I feel like all my questions came from this place of privilege and, and rather than like, trying to discover what was important to them. It came from like thinking I already had it in the bag.
Speaker 3
The same thing happened to me I walked in like so sure. I’m like this is said like, why are we having this meeting?
Dan Moyer
Exactly. And the totally screws you over? Yeah, mindset to be in? Yes. And
Speaker 3
it kind of like breaks. I broke my heart. But like, the funny thing is, like we like we still follow each other on social media. So like, I comment on her things. And I’m like, of course I calling them this, but I’m like, but I honestly want to I want to tell her that she looks great. And
Dan Moyer
it’s rough. It’s,
Speaker 3
it’s it is rough. But you know, it is what it is. But it’s also humbles you. Right like after he after you get like that humans that are lucky would really love you and you have done a great job with our family. But you know, when when somebody else immediately rings.
Dan Moyer
I actually have the third sibling coming up of this one family coming up in June this year. I did the brother just this past September. And then the fourth sibling who I may photographed, he just got the ring. But he’s he’s the brother. So and He’s the groom. So it’s not expected like right, that
Unknown Speaker
heard the session? Yeah,
Dan Moyer
the groom’s mom who’s like, like this mom is pretty much one of the reasons why I photographed all the siblings weddings, because she loves me. But like, I keep thinking like, Alright, when that comes through, just be cool. Like, it’s going to be fine, you’ll be able to photograph their wedding to be cool. Like, don’t think you got it still do your thing, and treat them the same way you would treat any other couple.
Carolina Guzik
So true. So true. Lesson. I mean, I know you clearly mentioned here that you don’t even ask for referrals. What is your position on people that like, Hey, if you send me a client I gave you, I don’t know, $100? Or something like that? How do you feel about that?
Dan Moyer
If it works for you do it. I think I think in the beginning, you got to cast a wide net, just try things just, I don’t know, do gift certificates to people sell them at a cheap level, or like one of my favorite sort of referrals is post wedding, post design consultation, maybe like a couple years later, if if a couple has a baby, I will send them a gift certificate, say for 250 bucks. And I’ll send them another one that says, hey, this one is this gives me this for you. And then this one is for somebody who you think could deserve it, or you think needs it or whatever. So that’s like, sort of a referral. But that’s I very rarely do that. It’s just like, there’s kind of like top that top like 20% of clients who I love who who just get me and that kind of thing. I’ll do that for some of them. But I think it’s just doing do what works for you. I mean, there’s plenty of photographers who have these, you know, massive referral sources from giving gift gifts back or I know somebody who would go to bridal salons and literally tell the salespeople that it for every wedding that that the Bridal Salon sins or the gown boutique sends to him, he’ll come down there and pay them in cash 100 bucks or whatever for each wedding that he books that they send to,
Carolina Guzik
you know, whatever works for you. Yep,
Dan Moyer
I would say my thing, but ya
Carolina Guzik
know my thing either and the only thing that I would say for whoever is listening to this is like if you are going to have kind of like a cash value in your referral. You can be cheap, it can be $25 if they’re sending you even if it’s even if you’re just starting out and your prices are you know, low 20 times are seems too little like it seems it seems not equal to you know what they’re giving you so that’s that’s my point there. Yeah, anyways, that was good. I did see Oh, go
Dan Moyer
ahead. One final thought and that’s I don’t necessary really asked for referrals, but I do and it’s gonna sound weird. I do reward couples for just like I have this one couple of Claire and Shawn. And they have sent me 17 referrals easily over like $70,000 in weddings that they’ve sent me right having booked all of them totally normal. In Your name. Hola. Exactly right. And so So is it? Here’s the question, though. Is it acceptable? Or is it normal to want to thank them with a card? Right? So somebody sends you one wedding, you’re like, you are amazing. I love you. Thank you so much for doing that. Right. Obviously, obviously, always think that person. But when you get to that point, what’s the thing you do for them? And I talked with some some of my friends. But I again tried to find that attention, right. Like one of their favorite restaurants is Tria and Philly. It’s like this place that has cheese boards and fun stuff. And we went there for our three, the the timeline meeting at three months. So I sent them like this fancy gift basket $250 With $150, you know, gift certificate to that restaurant. And I just showed up there and I was like, You guys have been a tremendous force and helping me grow my business, right? There’s nothing that I could do to ever repay you for all these weddings you’ve sent me. But let me just say thank you. Right. So good. Yeah, so there’s no like, Hey, if you do this for me, I’m gonna do that for you. It’s just a, they do it because they appreciate it. And I am sending this thing because I appreciate them.
Carolina Guzik
I love that. And what a great, you know, kind of like moment to remind people I am the kind of person that if I get let’s say that you send me a referral. Daniel, are you like, hey, I can shoot this wedding. You know, actually, now you’re telling me let’s say the couple comes to me. They’re like, Hey, Daniel, send me your way. Immediately. Like after I get that inquiry, like I haven’t even talking to the client, nothing, I immediately will send you an email or a text message. Hey, thank you so much for thinking about me. I just heard from you know, someone, so I’ll let you know how it goes. I love it. I think that and once again, this goes back to like, how do I love to receive love, because sometimes, like I sent a lot of couples, you know, to people, and then never heard, like, when you booked them, they like I list me like, and I don’t want anything, I just want a text message. But I think it’s I think it’s really important. I think we forget about that. And again, when I talk to vendors and things like that they’re like, You know what, you’re the only one that even if you don’t book them, you you send them like an email. And I think those little moments go a long way.
Dan Moyer
It goes back to that idea that people just want to be seen heard and loved, right. And if you can show somebody a little, especially if somebody’s like pouring themselves out, right, like this couple that has sent me 17 other of their friends, there’s there’s a few of those like champion cheerleader couples, right? If they’re going to take that time to share my name. You’ve got to say thank you in some way, you’ve got to express gratitude to them. And I know that they’re not doing I thinking, Oh, Dan’s gonna send me something. But like, I also just won’t, I won’t thank them, or I won’t send them something for the sake of sending them something. I just knew that like, I was like, Oh, they need to go to Tria, they need to have they’re having a baby soon. They could probably use a night out, right? So that’s where that comes from. But it just goes back to those three basic things wanting to see people hear them, or people want to be seen heard and loved. That’s it.
Carolina Guzik
So good. I did you on my Facebook group. And I did posted I think I don’t remember exactly what I posted. But I think that this month is like what is your kind of like your strategy for this month? How are you staying connected with your clients? And you posted that you’re sending the couples that are having babies this super cute book? Why are you doing this? Tell us about it.
Dan Moyer
So I actually don’t even really want to do family and maternity pictures there. I realized they don’t they don’t fill me up. They don’t like fill my cup. Right? But I will. If a couple one of my past couples asked me to do them. I can’t say no. Right. Like,
Unknown Speaker
like, I just can’t do that you’re emotionally attached to them.
Dan Moyer
And they are to me as well, right? I have there’s this one book that my little family loves, right? And my oldest daughter who’s going to be five soon, it started with her. And I remember reading this book for the first time and I’m a hyper emotional person. I remember like new dad bawl my eyes out. Right? And so I’ve read it so many times because Alice used to just pick it up and give it to me. And now one of our twins, who’s like 20 months old, she started picking up and give it to me and want me to read it at naptime and bedtime. And it just gives me all the feels as as a dad. And so I started thinking about like these other couples who are who just close with and I want nothing from them. I think that’s the thing, but it’s just it’s just a part of who I am. To want other people to feel good. Ah, so sweet. Yeah, like, I saw I just I was like, Hey, I didn’t tell half of most like hey, what’s your new address? And it just sent like a little note that was like, hey, you know if, if so and so doesn’t have this book, send it to somebody else. But this is a book that I love. It describes a lot of the things I love about being Dad and I hope the first couple months of having your Edo are joyous, because the first several months are brutal.
Dan Moyer
And the first several years, just
Dan Moyer
many years are brutal. But yeah, but I was like if I, maybe this, maybe this book will just like, brighten somebody’s day or if I love it this much, maybe somebody else will. But yeah, it, is there a tactic behind it, where if somebody’s, you know, where I get to kind of come back up in their mind, or pop back up in their mind outside of the digital world? Yeah, I mean, that is a good thing for me to get back up in their mind as friends of theirs to get engaged. But that’s a byproduct of me sending this thing out. I’m doing it just because I love the book. And I hope that they see and feel the same things that I feel when they read this book to their child.
Carolina Guzik
So this is just you relating to them in a in a new, you know, as a parent? Yes, pretty much. I love this. And I like this that not? I mean, yes, obviously, as you said, the byproduct will be you know, come up in your mind. Hopefully, you know, if it happens, great. And if it doesn’t happen, that’s not emotion attached to the gift, actually, the gift was actually 100% From your heart because you’re starting this new journey. And this is something that is important. That was nice for you and your family. And you want them to have something like that again. Yeah. So I think I think that in marketing, sometimes it’s important to do kind of like, just, you know, just just for the sake of like, being human. Yes, being
Dan Moyer
a human. Do you know who Gary Vee is? You follow him?
Carolina Guzik
Yes. I have somebody you
Dan Moyer
know. And this I think that everything
Carolina Guzik
that you shared is fantastic. Don’t get me wrong. And I I actually used to follow Gary Vee before he was into marketing when he was also into wine. Right? I still like to watch all his videos about wine. But I do think that he there’s a lot of this hustle mentality that constantly constantly, he looks tired, kind of occasional Gary goes location
Dan Moyer
doesn’t a little bit dark sometimes. Yeah, he needs to he doesn’t take a chill pill. But one of the things that he said the other day, right was like, I watched two videos that really resonated with me and things that I already do. But he put words to it. And one of the things he said he’s like, our grandparents were the ones who invented the baker’s dozen, right, which is 13 doughnuts or 13 Muffins instead of 12. Or they’re the ones who invented like going over to grandma’s house and giving them a cake or coming over to your house when your grandma dies, and giving you a cake, right? Like they’re the ones who invented that kind of stuff. Now, we can take those ideas and deploy them in our businesses at scale, where it’s just about putting some soul into our business, right, putting the human back into it. Weddings are an inherently very emotional thing. And I’ve been accused of romanticizing, you know, some of these things, and that’s okay. But I say weddings are romantic, right? I’m hyper romantic person, that’s part of who I am as part of my brand. And, you know, I if I’m on level 10, you know, maybe other people need to find the level five, or the level two, or whatever it is. But I think that there’s just ways to do this for the intention of wanting to make somebody else happy. In for a moment, right? Like, how many people are walking around, saying, you know, how are you doing standing like up good. And underneath, they’re just like, they’re a duck, right? Like, they’re calm and cool on the surface. But underneath, they’re paddling like crazy, right? I think there’s more people who are feeling that way than we expect. And if we can just just plant that little bit of seed of positivity or something, then we transcend what it means to just be a photographer, right?
Carolina Guzik
Love it. So good. So good to always, you know, remind everybody that is listening that, yes, we’re running a business, but we’re also it’s a personal business. And there is a very thin line, as you said that we you know, try to avoid crossing, but it’s still there is so many opportunities to add soul into what we’re doing. So, so good. I love this.
Dan Moyer
The more that I care, the more money I make, right? Like yes, I own a business, very giving of my time, but I do have college to save for and a mortgage to pay and all that stuff. So I’m not dumb. I’m not gonna just like throw out all this money to a couple and spend $500 on a gift basket. If if like, it wouldn’t make sense from a business perspective. But yeah, you get the point.
Dan Moyer
Correct. So
Carolina Guzik
good. So good. Well, Daniel, this has been so good. Tell me a little bit about just to ask you a question. Okay. You give us so many great strategies, tips, ideas, but if there is one marketing tip that you want to share with our audience, which one would it be? I know, I put you on the spot.
Dan Moyer
One marketing tip, man, you’re really putting me on the spot here. There’s I don’t know, I think it just has to be put the best interest of your clients first. Because the more that I have put my clients and their well being and the more that I show that I care, the more referrals I seem to get and the more money I make per referral. Awesome,
Carolina Guzik
I like this. What is one thing that you’re currently loving doesn’t have to be business related.
Dan Moyer
I’m loving Mister Money Mustache, if anybody knows who that is no idea. Mister Money Mustache is this like, he’s like a pseudo financial blogger, but it’s more like a lifestyle enthusiast of like very simple living and somebody who, who previously had a very toxic relationship with money. What I am finding in his writings, while he’s like on a very, very extreme level of like simple living, and that kind of thing, is something that I need to hear that the spending 1000s of dollars at Starbucks a year is is ruining my retirement is ruining my future. And going to the coffee shop all the time, and buying things that I don’t need is really, nobody’s coming to save for me, nobody has, I don’t have a 401 K, plan through my business or whatever it is on me to go out there, slay it, drag it home, and then save it right for my future for my family’s future. And I’m just finding a lot of advice about simple living on his blog.
Dan Moyer
Whoa, well
Carolina Guzik
check that out. sounds super interesting.
Dan Moyer
Thank you for the tip. For me,
Carolina Guzik
I want to talk here for a second because you know, we mentioned your photography and all that. But you do have a whole a whole different business, which is get focus photographers tell us a little bit about that,
Dan Moyer
that started a couple really like a year or so ago, when I was thinking back about the education that I was seeking out in like maybe year seven or eight, when I had this really not good a time of my business. And I stopped doing like very simple things that my that you are supposed to do when you run a business like taking care of your clients and, and just super basic things. And I did not book a single wedding for like six months. Because I just I took my clients for granted. And I saw two things when I was trying to take my turn my business around, they were these like 12345 Steps to Success that were not flexible that we’re here follow the system. And if you deviate from it, it’s not going to work for you. And I wanted something personal and flexible or the other one was, you know, here’s 500 new leads or a way to get 500 new leads, but no way to nurture them or create an experience for them. And so I decided to try to find a way to fill that gap. And, and teach photographers how to create businesses that are filled with meaning and purpose and put joy back into the process of owning a business while having a profitable business. So that’s where this idea of get focused photographers came from.
Carolina Guzik
I love that because as someone that has spent a lot of money in programs and systems that really didn’t do anything, I’m all for people in the industry that are teaching concepts that are flexible, right? I am not a fan of this, like if you don’t do this, you will not have success. What Who are you to tell? Like why? What are you talking about? There’s many
Carolina Guzik
ways to get to Rome.
Carolina Guzik
Right. So I think it’s important to that obviously, there is kind of like a structure that that you should follow. But then it’s kind of like building a house, right? You have the structure and then you know, the interior is up to you how you make it. So, so good. I am so happy that we were able to have this conversation today. It was lovely talking to you. And I’m happy that we have a very similar approach. I definitely need to tune in a little bit of my
Carolina Guzik
experience. But overall, I think is really, really good.
Carolina Guzik
And I’m really glad that you shared this concepts with our listeners, I think they’re gonna find this extremely useful. Thank you so much for your time, your knowledge, I think it was fantastic. And I’m sure that I will be talking to you more often. And for all of you go subscribe to the podcast that is coming up. Listen to that first episode and get on the Instagram because the tips that you’re sharing are super fun and you have a lot of like good content there. So thank you so much, Daniel, and I’ll talk to you very soon.
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